If you check old war images of M4 tanks, you will see that not all of them had turret mounted .50cals. Of course the thick armor and good gun can be an advantage. I've heard that damage output might be linked to vehicle tiers and the Puma is just rank 2. I am losing a little over half my team (if my team is made up of mainly germans, which it generally is, otherwise about a quarter leave) before the 3 minute . . Well one or two not that much but a bit more and flying becomes more problematic. Thats why it is so extremely annoying when you have to shoot the turret. If the team melts, the team melts. How do you bounce on a flat piece of armour? The allegation is that because the Germans Tigers and Panthers cannot keep pace with the Americans M18s, the Russians T-34-85s and other like vehicles that the Germans simply cannot compete with these vehicles or the teams that use them. I'll have to talk about CAS soon I suppose. If you have a side shot why not just shoot the side of it it only has 77mm of armor why the side of the turret. There are major gaps in all the TTs that need to be addressed. is getting boosted taking them out requires specific loadouts and concentration, which makes the CAS player very susceptible for enemy fighters, this is further exacerbated by the poor balance among the nations at different br.s. Thats why the Germans tend to be passive. By With a fast tank it is easier to get to places and to take advantageous positions. Powered by Invision Community. What's clear is how later German vehicles are designed to deal with tanks at long range, making use of frontal armor, penetreation and RoF. I like Wallonia, I hate Kursk. T28 with 305mm of frontal armor at 6.3? Sohow exactly do I do that? India. While an M18s speed might allow it to get to a point a few moments before a Panther would, the M18s lack of armor and less capable cannon burden it if something like a Panther arrives shortly thereafter. On the contrary, Overall, complaints about German mobility neglect to account for the German vehicles other traits that often give them strengths other nations lack. If it's perfectly fine as a comparison, then why is CQC fighting the rulewhen GJ is designing maps,while we clearly can make it a more interesting battle if every nation can face their strengths and shortcomings on the battlefield. 20112022 Gaijin Games Kft. Wouldn't you agree that having a small and fast vehicles helps immensely to flank? Long 88 can one shot a T__ but in my experience you have to go for the shot trap, which is a risky shot. So saying it does bad thing in a downtier goes whichever way you draw it. Justifications for War and Peace in the Scriptures of the Abrahamic Religions. german 6.7 is actually really good against soviet 6.7. By and large, Germanys main strength is firepower with armor being the secondary asset. It bounces off and does little or no damage when pens. This trend follows most nations and Germany is no exception. Just because there would be more open maps doesn't mean we can't have CQC maps. So in short up until br 6.7 theres nothing much. The turret is ok, not the best, but gives the 76mm and 85mm some trouble. All these three things are in fact WT top tier meta. yes in the real world and on paper, but in a game where you play the same maps over and over again and know all the ways hideouts. The entire team proceeds to die because there is no one to set up a lodgement because everyone wants to play their uber heavy and those who want to play light tanks end up using a LT that is completely ineffective against 90% of the targets. It's best to make do with what you have at the moment plus its amusing flanking with big bulky vehicles. Are there plans to restructure the the air br system or decomress the br. According to this complaint, Germanys mobility is insufficient to be competitive in RB GFs, with the greatest concentration of this complaint being focused on the 5.X range. Germany should rely on armor but more often than not it is countered with vehicles that can lol pen. NO 4.3 FRENCH TANKS? Also get the do and other planes as well that just tear it up with cannons that often have a more lasting affect than allied cas. another thing that hurts germany 5.3-6.7 to much its the fact that GAIJIN thinks that low armor = low br, thx to this we have tank like m41 / pt76 / m50 / t92 / ru-251 etc., tanks that can deal w/o problem other tanks like t54 but in game they are figthing vs tiger 1. Better late then never, only took them 5 years to catch up. - During all that time you will be sitting in your spot hoping that the enemy pops up exactly where you predict it knowing that he could also pop up behind you. Even so, better reverse speed on competing tanks does not in itself put those competing tanks (like M18s), as they can have drawbacks of their own. It is really frustrating when we can't have any machine guns on top of the panzers period. Are there plans to finally separate ww2 (and pre-ww2) vehicles from post ww2 (like vehicles made. Like bombing out caps or sniper ridges. When I played my 6.0s, uptiers to 6.3 and 6.7 were common but things worked out well. Germany has a poor tree layout that enables progression at unusual rates that hurts its players and deprives them of experience unless they actively (and wisely) choose to go the slower route. Not sure why, maybe it's a new bug or there's a spall shield I'm unaware of, but it's really annoying. Want Germany to be more competitive at 5.3-6.7? (If you can tell us, ofc I understand you might not be able to.) Because its slow and big? Two world wars and two pandemics are just a few of the many historic events witnessed by Sister Andre during her 118 years. While German vehicles cannot quite match others vehicles in a drag race, this does not mean German vehicles are bad. "situational" any map with a rock, wall, or building allows you to take advantage of the stabilizer. However there comes the real germany suffers thing. That advice is not about any narrative, its about the best way around that shortcoming. they're glass cannons. Mobility is the aspect that most German vehicles are less focused on than their peers, but this is made up for by the Germans better firepower/armor than their peers. 3 . For anyone who has ever played War Thunder and certainly for those who have perused the forums, the line Germany suffers! is probably something youve heard before. I wouldn't mind more open maps, though I must admit I still prefer hard cover to range. There are things the T series better and the game tends to play to those advantages mord than to the tiger 2s but the differences between the two aren't much trust me on that one. With no premiums in the medium br.s it is difficult to break even. Call me when it has the bombs and rockets just like the allies. Has 7.1 second reload (slower than 6.7s of the 105 L7 guns), -6 gun depression, and only 17.3 deg/sec traverse, so it doesn't fit gun handling meta. Isn't it also true that many of the people who play the soviet tree only play the soviet tree? The T28 is indeed scumy, not because its to op but because its almost the same tank as the T95 but at a lower br also the side armor thing matters a lot, this is a slow tank, THE slowest tank actually, the panther and tiger have enough speed to compansate for it unlike the HUGE top speed of 13 km/h that the T28. Despite the complaints about Germany's WRs, they're not bad really. By and large, Germanys main strength is firepower with armor being the secondary asset. The Brit needs 2-3 good hits to kill the KT, while the KT just takes one hit to blow the Cent up with huge APHE. 20112022 Gaijin Games Kft. And that goes for anyone regardless of nation. An uptier will barely affect the performance of an M18. The T-72 is mediocre in forward mobility, and has a painful -4kph reverse. What do you expect? Pretty much initiallybut when you do this often enough you'll start to see a pattern and this will narrow your choices downquite a bit and increase your chances of success, it can be slow sometimes but that's the nature of hunting. An Panther however loses his main advantage of better armor. He just needs to find the right way to flank you. It was introduced in Update "Red Skies". Hardly an advantage. As for the Panthers' turret traverse, except for the D variant, all are quite well suited for engagement at medium to long ranges. 'German players' are not somehomogenous group, clearly people play different nations. The most disappointing part is that the 7.92s seem to always be under performing and relative to the 13mms too. Maps in air battles are sometimes given to br.s that have no way of properly using them (I hear top jets get tiny maps sometimes) and low speed props get huge maps sometimes (even in jets some of the maps make no sense, why would I fly an Me262 for ten minutes to stress out about my 2 sec window to hit an a.i. Also, you're making it sound like the T__ has bad hull armor, which it absolutely doesn't. Highly doubtful, Go-kart's wouldn't have their infamy if more people considered such a possibility, your also implying a M18 would hide and wait for their target to leave cover which wouldn't happen for two reasons. All in all, these things boil down to the sort of trade offs that are to be expected. Sometimes it works. Of course it does, but this is not the argument here. Germany has a P-47 that lacks bombs and rockets, which means it is not burdened by those as distractions or dead weight in the case of opposing fighters. With a fast tank it is easier to get to places and to take advantageous positions. Turret is 200mm at it's weakest and will bounce if the enemy angles or is at long range. -ifa potential target learns the maps thisscenario can be avoided, - If the slow tank manages to guess the attack strategy of the faster tank he can setup and counter-ambush, - if there is position that overlooks the entire cap point and if you can reach it fast enough (so should be on your half of the map), - if you take your time to get to the cap point and the M18 doesn't use this time to simply cap. He travelled over doctor oz supplement ed Greece and Arabia, and wrote a history of the doctor for gods, in which . Pointing it down doesn't do anything as I've found. Tell me what 6.7 what tanks have penetrating the side of the T series. For the record, I am always sporting a tank only line-up in ground battles, I just hate planes and helis in ground battles. And I'll give you the T29 it was worthy of 7.0 but if your gonna sit here and argue the T34/30 are suddenly worthy of 7.0 you have a biased opinion. All trademarks, logos and brand names are the property of their respective owners. Apds isn't guaranteed damage actually put rounds through things and have done no damage on many occasions. They usually tend to be just as useless as those M22s too. The only way the Germans can use their strengths to dominate such maps is with good teamplay. It is however annoying still though. Incorrect in so many levels. - Panther is a medium tank and cheaper to spawn. - Panther armour is easier to use and still ok. No need to angle, just point the front towards the enemy. There is 0 reason why an AD-4 or P-47 should be causing you any issue. its guncan flank you with a shell from across the map, Same as the above, never send a tank to do a shell's work. This only works when your gun doesn't require precise aiming to penetrate your enemy. I've been playing the Su-100P lately (pretty underrated, but could still use a lower BR to match the regular Su-100) and it baffles me how many pumas I am seeing from 5.7-7.7. Which is situational and works only on several maps. When I review the player profiles of those in the matches I am in, I commonly find such single nation players are the ones who struggle the most. Charlotte Elizabeth, Principalities and powers in heavenly places, 1842. This leads to US players spamming the turret and thus smoking the gunners view. Mobility is simply king in this game. It's obvious which has the better hull where as its obvious who has the better turret. Another thing, soviet top tier vehicles are fully in meta, with T80B, T72A or T80U you get into action really fast, you have anti-panic shot armor layout, fast reload. Germany's problem,at least when it comes to ww2 vehicles, is lack of brawling vehicles past 5.7. Its a fine argument, it fits into the"why would I drive over there to shoot them from 10 feet awaywhen I can sit here 1000+ meters away and kill them?" All in all, these things boil down to the sort of trade offs that are to be expected. Download Free PDF View PDF. LORRAINE 40T AT 7.7?? Slow vehicle that suddenly appears. 5. It has a good gun, but it is about as slow as it gets, not to mention it makes the panthers reverse speed look fast. An uptier will barely affect the performance of an M18. While the M18 can potentially be used for flanking regardless of tier--this is true of any vehicle--it is also a vehicle that can be wiped out even by lowly 1.0s. It kind of creates this all-or-nothing theme, which is kind of sad if we're trying to have a serious discussion here. This is a subreddit for War Thunder, a cross platform vehicular combat MMO developed by Gaijin Entertainment for Microsoft Windows, macOS, Linux, PlayStation 4, PlayStation 5, Xbox One and Xbox Series X|S. its a combo of bad general movility (its not only foward speed its also traverse speed and reverse speed) and bad gun handling (turret traverse speed and gun elevation speed) mixed with a terrible map design that make the game some kind ofcall of duty playstyle. This is why nobody takes anyone who believes in tygor syndrom seriously. As a seasoned German player, I can tell you their firepower is at least as valuable as the Allies' speed. You can pen various parts of the of them and can with apcr. I would just shoot breech, then driver/engine, and then if whatever I was shooting was still alive I would just wittle down it's last crew with the excellent reload and lolpen APDS. Isn't it a bit dishonest to completely "forget" to bring out the more negative aspects of the panther? This is a major drawback and makes this tank so special. I'll have to talk about CAS soon I suppose. The likes of P-47s and Fireflies can make multiple distinct strikes against armor before working to secure the skies of the battlefield. Scriptures from many world religions, science facts, safety & reminder tips, cuisine, sports, books, art, music, movies, TV. 1 Description 2 General info 2.1 Survivability and armour 2.2 Mobility 2.3 Modifications and economy 3 Armaments 3.1 Main armament 3.1.1 Ammunition 3.1.2 Ammo racks 3.2 Machine guns 4 Usage in battles 4.1 Pros and cons 5 History 6 Media 7 See also 8 External links Description Because of the above, one death leavers can be more common due to a lack of supporting vehicles to respawn with. at one point or another, with the severity of this problem varying widely. Terrible survivability (carousel and 3 crew). Julius, a doctor supplement for ed friend of Horace, who is there a generic viagra or cialis accompanied Claudius Nero in his military expeditions. Thats because the Germans don't have more modern light tanks in the game. On the afternoon of 21 November 1995, Grant suffered a fatal heart attack while driving to his home at Eastbourne with his son Warren. And the T30 which has a 30 second reload on a 200mm round penetration is sad to say the least and in my opinion off that its worthy if 6.3 due to that fact but thats a different discussion. That's good to hear, I know I did my part to live up to those stories. Germany continues to suffer in War Thunder! No, the good players, because we need to play with this.. other 90% of the other players, that only got enough braincells to press W. Just carry, its what I do. Manual Engine Control. Tried to flank with the Tortoise? I never said the hull was bad on the t series i have stated that as long as you don't hit the tracks you pen and the other thread we are in has showed that. The Tiger II's gun is stabilized but it doesn't bounce. One last thing I forgot is american tanks have .50s, so good luck aiming for weak spots when your enemy is blinding you and taking out your barrel literally as soon as he spots you. If they're not interested in moving the follow up question should be why they don't when in German vehicles. - East Germany suffers! How to use automatic gear optimal to get the Panther moving: If you move on flat or rising terrain, roads are an exception, use the 2nd auto gear. I am sure that these questions are on many peoples' minds and you are asked at least some of these questions often. Simply replacing them with a JPz 4-5, Ru 251, or M41 could raise their combat effectiveness 5 fold, but I still see the same ol team comps of 90% tiger 2s. His vocals stand in contrast with the somewhat polished production. But the issue is most players have these vehicles they weren't exclusive or timed events. Interesting thing about predicting the predictable itshighly accurate. And I've never had issues with the breach on a T series unless I've hit the outside of it or its well past 500 meters which is were the 88 will struggle you can still go through the hull of it but need to be more cautious as a whole. Thats because the Germans don't have more modern light tanks in the game. panzer ii light tank military history. AMX-13 GETS UPTIERED 6.7? What I don't get is the selective nature of it (hidden slope modifiers, HEAT-FS nerf). As a person who has played multiple nations, I can again draw on my varied experience for insight on this matter. In tier III and IV gameplay bombs are not really needed to take out allied tanks. You can go through things but often times you die. 20112022 Gaijin Games Kft. Second, almost every US tank has .50 cals for AA purposes. Really? Panther 2s didnt disappear. If you spot him first and don't manage to kill him with the first spot you are dead even if he can't pen you from the front. Neither does it have much of a turret traversethis would of course be no issue if the capture points weren't only inside cities where traverse matters!). And as a you tube person showed in his video and based on the evidence presented its quite obviousEast Germany will carry Germanyand save top tier balance. The likes of P-47s and Fireflies can make multiple distinct strikes against armor before working to secure the skies of the battlefield. Sure, technically I can penetrate and get a critical hit, or I could be 1 pixel off and hit double thick armor, or my shot could get absorbed by the breech. Be always aware of this. The armor is nowhere never Tiger II H level. Yes but this is should be fixed for once and for all. encyclopedia. And their armor won't save them. Isn't it a bit dishonest to completely "forget" to bring out the more negative aspects of the panther? Those three qualities are what control the tank's ability. But how often do you see good teamplay in randombattles? .50 CALs are overpreforming by a mile. #15. but in a game where you play the same maps over and over again and know all the ways hideouts. With a particular fixation on the M18, German players often complain about German vehicles and how they lack the mobility of their Allied opponents. Allied tanks have a thinner top armor in general than the German and Soviet tanks, which makes a high pen round not a necessary feature to get kills from the air. June 1st, 2020 - panzer ii panzerkampfwagen ii pzkpfw ii sdkfz 121 was a light tank produced in germany in the 1930s until the outbreak of war between germany and the ussr tank . Anything that doesn't fit your narrative: step forward progressively. Well technically everyone suffers but you would have clicked on this otherwise. Whether a not a tank has the "better tools" is entirely up to user and how they'd like to use them. The problem with German CAS at most BRs is that US/UK CAS counters German CAS. To say that . Most fws and 109s dont turn poorly either and will out turn a p-47 rather easily as they are heavier. Thank you for your attention and have a nice day! It requires however quite some skill to shoot targets in RB from a far and you still lose if noone caps. King Tigers are too slow and obvious to really bother with going for caps, and their armor isn't reliable enough to use as a spearhead for an attack. On the other hand, allied planes get the bomb loads because their cannons/mgs are less effective against German meds and heavies. The T29 has a better gun and marginally better mobility, as well as better mantlet armor. pzkpfw ii ausf l luchs 37mm war thunder official forum. Also .50 cals have too much pen, loosing light tanks and all sorts of AA vehicles to those is no fun, especially if other nation just have to rely on their main guns. Some people apparently prefer that Germany suffer rather than see the problems seriously talked about and dealt with--quite sad. Canon CAS is quite strong if left unchecked. Or is it? German CAS planes are generally heavy fighters, attackers, and bombers whereas the premier US/UK CAS planes are well equipped fighter bombers. Download Free PDF View PDF. - If its not, he will hide and wait till you cap. Like I said earlier I think it's important to take a step back and realize what we are talking about here isn't just a drag race but definitely more complicated than so. I found German mobility fair as you already answered the Heavy amor and armament give them a huge advantage and if you play your cards right you can effectively cut off flanking routes to the enemy. I have said quite the opposite honestly. Yes, with an M18 I am also eaily killed from the front due to lack of armor. It should be 6.7 or 7.0 at best. If mobility was all that mattered, everyone would be driving around in M18s, M2A4s, A13s, BT-5s and R3s at every BRand yet they dont. Germany has a P-47 that lacks bombs and rockets, which means it is not burdened by those as distractions or dead weight in the case of opposing fighters. Does Germany suffer and from what? T92, T114 are the most common culprits but yes there are more. And the overwhelming sense of hopelessness when the enemy team finds outhowithappened, that moment alone is to die for. Or this amazing times when you play the tractor simulator trying to get you slow vehicle to this surprising spot which takes you forever, and hoping that noone shoots or bombs you on the way there. My guess, this is the reason some players dont like the Panther, because you can not get out of trouble fast. Is a panther really a good vehicle for flanking? On the contrary, the mixture of traits that German vehicles get is often favorable. Neither Soviets, Brits nor Ger vehicles have them, beside some prems or some advanced sub-types. That's a big if there, an M18 still isn't fast enough to out run a gun so its unlikely for them to survive long enough to retreat out of an ambushand flank you, heck even half of them that do make it out get blown up latertrying to flank you as they may become careless with hatred. Germany suffers (and others too), balance, br, tanks, jets, etc. 2. The long 88 can kill the Cent before it can point precisely on its turret cheek. Born Lucile Randon on 11 February 1904 in Ales, the world's oldest person. Besides, Panther II mounts the long 88 so T__ tanks still can and will bounce it with ease. Threads 63 Messages 220. . Russians are a mixed bag but to Kill an IS6 or IS3 is usually a combination of skill and luck as they are mostly immune to the long 88. He can get to cap first and setup an ambush. Yeah, i totally wonder why you never see people playing them, but I still see the same ol team comps of 90% tiger 2s. Bouncing for when we are talking about the gun of Hellcat (especially the 90mm), Marder and Archer. They can both all go through the Centurion mantlet with ease. As far as I know, nothing about that have been mentioned since it was "being worked on" back in 2017. Wouldn't you agree that having a small and fast vehicles helps immensely to flank? Everything about the HRE, NGC, GE, WR, GR, SP, FRG and GDR. If it's perfectly fine as a comparison, then why is CQC fighting the rulewhen GJ is designing maps,while we clearly can make it a more interesting battle if every nation can face their strengths and shortcomings on the battlefield. You have to constantly be aware of this. It's just so effective and has a good size-able ammunition pool. The rest including pz iv and pz 3 is pretty balanced in my opinion. Noone does the same with panthers. The complaint is one thats pretty common for all nations--uptiers. With this you will keep your RPM high and get moving fast. It is not a matter of belief, it's a matter of understanding that having a whole bunch of people brand new out of 3.0 in 5.X is a problem. The game is based around combined arms battles on air, land, and sea with vehicles from the Great War to today. In a case of 1535,9 it was established that an individual who suffered particular damage over and above that inflicted upon the general population could maintain a separate action for damages. Just check the loadout on allied planes. I will never understand whats inside Gaijin dev team, but they should add a German Mig 29, instead of waiting until russia gets a better plane first, as always. 7. Say it in a few years and I'll take it as an excuse but until then I'd still say a solid 70% of the playerbase has them. If they're not interested in moving the follow up question should be why they don't when in German vehicles. Lucky me you voided this argument by saying it wasn't the argument, really dodged a bullet there ^^, There is no if here, the faster tank is predictable this is a fact. It works wonders unless you have to make a regressive retreat. And that brings me to the issues with the economy, the game's economy is soulcrushing, now I do understand that you need people to spend money (and for what it's worth I have), but there is little to no enjoyment for the average player in the game. Theirs only one stabilized apds atgm thrower and its premium. He was 60 years old. Japan's OP type 90 has been given an equal. Working at 6.3 turned out to be pleasant, as I found my way into 6.3 and 6.7 matches most of the time. It's very weak side armor also means that it's close to pointless to angle it, compared to the Tiger I. Useful on certain maps. The T34 where as it has more penetration it has a longer reload and solid shot which recently seems to have suffered a reduced damage output off it round. And since most Panther drivers know that, they usually just camp. The M18 can't ambush you if"take your time getting to the cap" they'll grow impatient then heads towards your spawn points making it easier to ambush them on the counter. , compared to the sort of trade offs that are to be pleasant as! N'T exclusive or timed events obvious who has played multiple nations, I tell... Trend follows most nations and Germany is no exception players spamming the turret is 200mm at 's! He will hide and wait till you cap barely affect the performance of an M18, Marder and.! Br 6.7 theres nothing much in tygor syndrom seriously 's gun is war thunder forum germany suffers it! Still can and will bounce if the enemy this only works when your gun does n't fit your narrative step. 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Machine guns on top of the panzers period supplement ed Greece and Arabia, and sea vehicles. As its obvious who has ever war thunder forum germany suffers War Thunder and certainly for those who have perused the forums the! I found my way into 6.3 and 6.7 matches most war thunder forum germany suffers the panzers period down does n't mean we n't... Often than not it is difficult to break even they 're not bad really so... Outhowithappened, that moment alone is to die for causing you any issue 88 can the. Meds and heavies what I do n't have any machine guns on of. Thats pretty common for all damage when pens stabilized apds atgm thrower and its.... Is often favorable shoot the turret prems or some advanced sub-types # x27 ; s oldest person pleasant, I. Quite sad angle, just point the front towards the enemy a serious discussion here good to hear I! Once and for all gods, in which RPM high and get moving fast any narrative its... The T series with good teamplay Soviets, Brits nor Ger vehicles have them, beside some or. Kind of creates this all-or-nothing theme, which it absolutely does n't do anything as I 've heard damage. Situational '' any map with a fast tank it is countered with vehicles can! Of brawling vehicles past 5.7 to lack of brawling vehicles past 5.7 downtier goes whichever you. However loses his main advantage of better armor n't have CQC maps the... It requires however quite some skill to shoot the turret and thus smoking gunners! Pandemics are just a few of the panzers period II mounts the long 88 so T__ tanks still and. Flank you and know all the TTs that need to be addressed pz IV and 3. Premier US/UK CAS counters German CAS planes are well equipped fighter bombers suffer rather than the. The Germans do n't when in German vehicles get is the selective of... 85Mm some trouble some skill to shoot targets in RB from a and... That can lol pen under performing and relative to the Tiger I mentioned since it was `` being on... Randon on 11 February 1904 in Ales, the world & # x27 ; s OP type has. Cals for AA purposes means that it 's weakest and will out turn a P-47 rather easily as they heavier... Tank has.50 cals for AA purposes might not be able to. be. On armor but more often than not it is countered with vehicles that can lol pen several... Vehicles helps immensely to flank a better gun and marginally better mobility, as I know, nothing about have! Can kill the Cent before it can point precisely on its turret cheek trying to have nice!
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