The model pictured here is the two-person version but theres also a three-person version available too. Ship to: NEMO Equipment. Recently did a 4 day hike in Arkansas with 2 days of rain. \s. In the case of the Fly Creek, you also only get one door and vestibule, which makes it much harder for two backpackers to move around and organize gear. Oh and I totally agree opening a door and staying dry should be a bare minimum requirement. but way too many tents just dont. Youve got two internal pockets one on either side of the tent that will diffuse the light of a, Blackyak Brava Waterproof Jacket | Review. Thankfully, Nemo didnt go overboard with the Dagger OSMO, hitting a nice mix of moderately thin fabrics that are resistant to tears and abrasion. This page works best with JavaScript. That said, the Quarter Domes semi-freestanding build isnt as easy or convenient to pitch as the fully freestanding Dagger OSMO (it's also quite hard to get a very taut s, and the tapered foot end makes it more cramped for two full-sized adults. We've had it out a few times, and it was good to see that it deals with angry weather just as well as pleasant weather. The fact that the new OSMO fabric is both incredibly tough, impressively waterproof, and 100% recycled is just icing on the cake. Used it a few times already. This model has a single, hubbed pole structure. It didn't drip or anything, so that's a plus. Our second tent was a Nemo Hornet 2P, and that was about the exact opposite in design philosophy: very very cramped, but super compact and lightweight. The most obvious competitor is the MSR Hubba Hubba, which weighs exactly the same but is marginally smaller. Its freaking great. We also use third-party cookies that help us analyze and understand how you use this website. There were serious design issues though: the distance between the fly and the tent body was not very much. Not our favorite ventilation design (but it still does the job in all but the most humid conditions). And while the tent peaks at 42 inches tall right in the center, the dual hubs and bent poles at each end of the tent create an openness that makes it easy to sit upright almost anywhere without hitting the ceiling. and Dragonfly (3 lbs. This is probably the intended orientation. If you are not interested you can unsubscribe at any time. Once we've determined your repair needs, we'll give you an estimate of repair services or refer you to a secondary repair facility. This latest Dagger OSMO 2P version is by far Nemos best yet, but there are a few things Id like to see them do differently next time around. The Nemo Dagger 2P has been considered one of the best one tent solutions out there for years. The first time I pitched this, I went in blind without reading the instructions. You've already spent a substantial amount on a tent, but should you tack on the extra purchase of a footprint? I'd feel confident forgoing the footprint most days. The Anjan also costs more than double the $300 I paid for the dagger, unless that $740 price tag Im seeing is not usual retail. Length wise seems closer to spec although I'm not 100% on that. The tent is susceptible to a little bit of splashback from the ground, but the bathtub floor is also higher than many other models, keeping moisture on the outside of the tent. I am very happy with this purchase. Wait impatiently like a kid on their birthday for your gear. Our high quality Tents and Shelters Tents are thoughtfully designed and built to last season after season. The freestanding design also makes it really easy to get a taut pitch even on a granite slabsignificantly easier than a tent like the semi-freestanding Big Agnes Tiger Wall. WebUse a carrier that can provide tracking and insurance for your package. NEMO is not responsible for lost or damaged packages. EnerDels lithium-ion battery solutions offer notable benefits over traditional battery solutions, including light weight, longer cycle life, reduced maintenance and service and often less space allowing for new product design options. A high-quality tent that strikes a solid balance between weight and comfort features, Targeted toward the backpacker who wants it all, the, Good balance between weight and durability. Instead, our system considers things like how recent a review is and if the reviewer bought the item on Amazon. The tent stood up during the storm (I did have to use the extra strings to fasten into the wind) and did NOT leak at all. The Dagger OSMOs fully freestanding build and symmetrical shape is a cinch to set up. This is one of those things in tent design that seems to be going backwards. Suggestions for Press J to jump to the feed. Its quick drying, seems pretty durable (but light) and I havent had any issues with the fabric sagging in wet weather. and ultralight FreeLite 2 (18 x 4.5 in. One stake on each corner, plus two for each vestibule. It goes up in literally a minute or two. Also the Jake's feet take some getting used to and I was worried about their durability but I like them so far. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. If youre looking for a one-person tent with the new OSMO fabric, the Nemo Hornet has also been given the OSMO treatment for 2022. This age-old question challenges newbie backpackers and veterans alike. I loved my Nemo Dagger 2p tent during the week I camped out in Oshkosh for the EAA Oskhosh 2021 Air Adventure. And to be fair, 4 pounds split between 2 people isn't that heavy anyways. The cookie is set by GDPR cookie consent to record the user consent for the cookies in the category "Functional". If you have the original invoice, include this in the box also. But to be fair, it was fully exposed on the outside of my backpacking pack, and the tent itself is holding up incredibly well with no signs of wear. This tent is a quality companion on brisk early spring mornings. However, it checks virtually every other box we could have. High-performance, high-strength OSMO poly-nylon ripstop fabric has 4x better water repellency and 3x less stretch when wet. The result is an incredibly tough fabric thats impressively waterproof, highly resistant to stretching and sagging, and faster drying than anything else Nemo has ever used in a tent. Nemo Dagger Porch in the wind - YouTube Premieres in 5 hours October 4 at 10:00 AM Nemo Dagger Porch in the wind 3,927 views Premiered Jan 9, 2021 26 Dislike Share Save One person will have their doors backwards but in practice this isn't a huge problem. Just click on any of the seller links above, and if you make a purchase, we receive a small percentage of the transaction. Condensation only set in on the inside of the fly after about an hour or two of my wife and I being in it (6:30 was when we went in). ; Color-coded, hubbed pole set with color-matched webbing on the Packed size seem to be similar. Our only knock against the setup is that the pole apparatus is just long and gangly, so it can take a little bit to get it under control. No leaks!! ft. of floor space with a 38-in. No issue with the rain dripping on the inner side between the fly and the tent itself? Masses of space, actually. Set-up and takedown are super fast and easy. I don't mind the extra weight with the Dagger. One wide and one standard left a couple of inches. As weve found, the 2P is completely fine for two adults and a medium-sized dog. It adds on an additional half a pound, bringing the total weight of the tent up to 4.25 lbs. This sub is about overnight backcountry backpacking, with a focus on moving efficiently, packing light, generally aiming at a sub 10 pound base weight, and following LNT principles. Tested well against heavy rain. WebNEMO does not warranty products against normal wear and tear, unauthorized modifications or alterations, improper use, improper maintenance, misuse or neglect, or if The only durability issue I encountered was a minor (and almost imperceptible) snag along the stuff sack. Combine with condensation issues this became a problem. It was only after several hours of cold, heavy rain in a river valley that condensation started to set in, and even then due to the large interior dimensions of the tent you can avoid most of it. MODULAR AND CUSTOMIZABLE AMERICAN-MANUFACTURED LITHIUM-ION BATTERY SOLUTIONS FOR YOUR ENERGY NEEDS. Interior comfort is fantastictheres sufficient room side-to-side and lengthwise for two people to comfortably sleep. I like the way the base of the fly sheet is cut quite high in places it creates a nice bit of ventilation but you dont feel that it leaves you vulnerable to the elements either. Nemo boosted interior storage with the latest model, and I had no trouble finding room for all of the essentials inside. And this is no exception. When tucked inside, the two mesh pockets (one at each end) provide enough space for a book or a few articles of clothing. It has the same length and peak height of the 2P, so what you receive in return is an additional 20 inches of width and another 12.5 square feet of floor space. Many sleeping pads are 20 inches wide, so there is just enough space for another pad and sleeping bag. The geometry of the headroom also doesn't feel very different, which means that it's a little more cramped than we prefer for the people on the sides. I would (and have) recommend this to a friend. The two side doors are great for entering and exiting the tent without disturbing your partner. Terrible design. RAINFLY DOORS CAN BE OPENED WITHOUT WATER JUST RUSHING INTO THE TENT! Next morning my tent was buried in a sand drift weighing around 65 pounds. For car camping, get a Coleman. Reviewed in the United States on September 4, 2017. Depending on the seller, most products ship free in the United States on orders of $50 or more. An impressively lightweight and packable waterproof jacket for hikes and treks. I've researched a lot, but there's no big reviews about the Dragonfly as it's recent. I understand the logic behind this, but it's still an annoyance. The Big Agnes Fly Creek HV UL2 and Nemos own Hornet tent are a couple of popular two-person designs that undercut the Dagger OSMO by nearly two pounds and save you $110 and $80, respectively. That's nothing against the Nemo though. Nemo no longer provides denier specs (measurements of fabric thickness) for the tent, but the OSMO felt similarly hardwearing to the outgoing model, which utilized a 30-denier (D) nylon along the bottom with thinner 15D along the canopy and fly. We will email you a return authorization number (RA#). If you want to guy it out, 4 guy lines are supplied (you'll need extra stakes), and you probably could stick a line at the head and foot of the tent if you really wanted to open it up. The wind drove the sand through the mesh and I slept in a rain of sand. Nemo doesnt list their fabric specs in denier ratings anymore, but after spending a month with the new OSMO fabric, I can safely say its properly tough and weatherproof. Thru-hikers, solo backpackers, or those that love a brag-worthy tent weight will be very happy with the Fly Creek and Hornetor even a superlight option like the Zpacks Duplex Flexbut the Dagger OSMO offers far fewer compromises and better balances its priorities. It's neither objectively good nor bad, but it is also worth noting that the two doors open in opposite directions, which means that sleepers are meant to lie head-to-toe. Here are some of my favorite perks of the new Dagger OSMO. Reviewed in the United States on June 10, 2021. I have the Dagger b/c on paper it seems pretty great, but in practice it's pretty disappointing. The poles worked exactly as intended, flexing and bowing to combat the gusts without coming loose or snapping under pressure. In short: It took NEMO more than 100 iterations to perfect its Osmo fabric, and from our testing, its pretty great. Pretty straightforward. 3 Reply TigerFeet94 2 yr. ago Can't speak for the Nemo, but I have the MSR and the quality and clever use of The net result is a truly comfortable place for two backpackers to sleep at night. The Essential Guide for MenThe Manual is simple we show men how to live a life that is more engaged. Its a very liveable tent. Nemo Crash or Unresponsive. EXPLORE. We noticed that the pre-bent poles really maximize interior volume, especially at shoulder height. You can open the rainfly without water rushing in, and that's a huge plus. This sub is about overnight backcountry backpacking, with a focus on moving efficiently, packing light, generally aiming at a sub 10 pound base weight, and following LNT principles. You also get two doors and vestibules, and vertical sidewalls help maximize space and headroom. Super lightweight makes it ideal for backpacking. You simply plug the ends of the main tent pole into each grommet and do the same for the top crossing pole, then you can hang up the mesh using the series of little hooks/clips. This is one of the first tents to feature Nemos new OSMO fabric, a PFC-free and 100% recycled yarn that mixes both polyester and nylon. The pricing information on this page is updated hourly but we are not responsible for inaccuracies. Was cold. We were pummeled with strong, knock-you-over gusts in Patagonias Ro Elctrico Valley that ripped through camp throughout the night, but the Nemo remained upright and held strong in the violent winds. 1 oz. We camped on pretty rough surfaces in Patagonia, including one night at a very exposed and rocky campsite at Lago Elctrico. And the distance between the fly and the tent body was not very much. The Dagger held up great and no real The few things I want are either going to be astronomically expensive (I'd LOVE to make a DCF rainfly for this thing) or relatively minor (yeah, door vents aren't ideal). If you live around western Washington, I went up into the mountains last night just below the snow line. Rain last night was substantial in that area, so for the occasional afternoon rain storm it probably isn't an issue. 383 Central Ave, Suite #275. Interior space is top-notch. Comes with Nemo's Divvy Sack so you But going over a mental checklist of everywhere I have stayed I can't think of many places where the Dagger 2P wouldn't fit that the Hornet would have. The tent and poles are also symmetrical, which means there is no 'head' or 'foot', so it's easy to orient everything properly. The Nemo Dagger OSMOs sturdy structure, water-repellent materials, and tall bathtub floor add up to a formidable three-season tent. It survived brutal conditions intact. Join us and ask yourself the question: Do I really need that? Reviewed in the United States on October 21, 2022. Corporate HQ 3619 W 73rd St Anderson, IN 46011 info@EnerDel.com +1 (317) 703-1800, Advanced Engineering Tech Center 18872 MacArthur Blvd Irvine, CA 92612, Industrial - Construction, Mining, Marine, Battery Packs - 48V to 705V Current Production. I agree with everything you wrote about it. This fills out side to side nicely, and you still have a lot of room at your feet for anything you dont want to leave in the vestibule. Hiking boots are critical to your comfort and performance on the trail, but this no longer means a stiff and burly model that will weigh you down. The core to the tent are the "Jake's Feet" on the four corners. The layout is really nice too, with the dual side entries and the "vestibule" for taking shoes on and off without making a mess of everything. This tent comes with a pre-bent pole architecture which pulls the canopy out a little bit more than a traditional straight pole design. Does Your Backpacking Tent Need a Footprint? This tent is very light and easy to put together. Why throw it in a landfill when you can patch it up and be on your way, loving the gear that has been with you on so many adventures? Weighing in at 3 pounds, 14 ounces (including tent body, fly, stakes, line, and stuff sacks), the Dagger 2 certainly isn't the lightest tent in our review. Welcome to lightweight backpacking tents? We use affiliate links andmay receive a small commission on purchases. However, with several recent updates in the backpacking tent Not having previous experience with that kind of weather, I was just waiting for the tent to fly away. This isn't an ultralight tent but it is lightweight for what it is. Theres bucket loads of space here but at 1.86g its still pretty light not the lightest 2P tent by any means but its still light. Easy to pitch, and amazing enough, fits into its bag with space to spare after use. Two regular-width sleeping mats fit side-by-side with room to spare, the symmetrical floor is expansive enough to accommodate a long sleeping bag, and the sidewalls are stretched to be nearly vertical. For a 1 person tent sure, I'll make tons of compromises. For comparison, weve also tested Nemos ultralight Hornet and Dragonfly, which weigh considerably less but have heavily tapered designs. ), but we had no issues fitting it in a backpacking pack even without separating the poles from the main storage sack. Recently did a 4 day hike in Arkansas with 2 days of rain. peak height) in a 2-pound-14-ounce package. Please make sure that you are posting in the form of a question. Adventure Resources. These cookies track visitors across websites and collect information to provide customized ads. The tips of the poles have a ball at each end that clicks into a 'socket' at each corner of the tent. Combine with condensation issues this became a problem. Nemo also boosted storage on the inside of the latest model, including two lower mesh pockets, one upper mesh pocket at each end, and two new Nightlight Pockets that can be used for storage or diffused illumination from your headlamp. 70% of the time the weather won't go below 5 degrees c but there will be the odd trip into the mountains. Wind resistance is another clear highlight of the design. You probably *could* leave the fly clipped to the body, and setup everything underneath it. However, the Dragonfly tapers at the feet (compared to the Daggers symmetrical layout) and is noticeably more cramped for two backpackers. Had it about 2 years. Getting in and out wasn't too hard. Nemo Footprint for Dagger Tent Visit the NEMO Store 50 ratings | 5 answered questions $4995 Color: Granite Grey Size: 2 Person See more About this item From start to finish, its a few short minutes for one person to accomplish, which is comparable to most mainstream backpacking tent models. Armed with the knowledge of what we didn't like about it, we went looking for other tents. Reproduction without permission is prohibited. And being in the boundary waters..it was really unacceptable to have a tent with those types of issues. But that rain was downright oppressive, not your typical PNW Drizzle. Gives the tent a nice cozy feel. Im taking it down to Patagonia next month-will be able to test out the wind durability. As I touched on above, the new OSMO fabric is designed to be naturally resistant to moisture and stretching when wet, and its done just that. There were serious design issues though: the walls slope in so aggressively that sitting up without touching them was hard even just for me. The upside is that you can manage the system without leaving the tent, but by deploying the vent, you trim away the upper few inches of the door, making it a little more difficult to get in and out. Dover, NH 03820. Any suggestion that could help me deciding between the two? The Dagger has been a beloved tent in the Nemo lineup for years, most notably because it pulls double duty as a solid camping tent for two that also happens to be fast and light enough for proper backpacking duty. Here's what's nice about this setup: the ground sheet and rainfly both physically clip to the tent body. We could never get this thing staked in such a way that the rainfly wouldn't get soaked with condensation, sag, and then contact the body of the tent. The Nemo Dagger OSMOs premium construction and $480 price pit it against some of the best sellers in the backpacking tent market. We'll get back to you as soon as we can. The NEMO Dagger 2 is a full-featured backpacking tent with a carefully considered design. The OSMO fabric has been impressive too. Length is good too (I'm 6'-3) and don't touch on either end. The cost of the product is the same to you but this helps us continue to test and write about outdoor gear. For $379, the Quarter Dome boasts a fairly generous interior (28.7 sq. Another nice touch on the eco front is the addition of a dye-free pole bag thats made from a fabric produced using 1.6 plastic bottles. All things considered, its a small nitpickand the system is completely functionalbut the design does fall a little short in this regard. Camped first night on beach in howling wind. I've read so many reviews, from Reddit users and just random reviews, that it's pretty resistant and hold well against bad weather, and that it has heaps of space it's probably good for a single person I guess. Doors didn't really give us any problems. The OSMO fabric is truly impressive in the wet. The Repreve pole bag is also 100-percent-recycled. At NEMO its about comfort, sustainability and reliability. Is it really necessary? The hardest part about setup is honestly trying to velcro the fly to the poles. If youre in the market for a backpacking tent, youll probably notice that designs are categorized as freestanding or non-freestanding. But what do these designations mean, and how do you know which style is right for you? ' at each corner of the new Dagger OSMO with a pre-bent architecture. Hubbed pole structure is completely fine for two backpackers Tents and Shelters Tents are designed... Latest model, and amazing enough, fits into its bag with to. Websites and collect information to provide customized ads this page is updated hourly we... I would ( and have ) recommend this to a formidable three-season tent ground sheet and rainfly physically! Sidewalls help maximize space and headroom have the Dagger I 'm 6'-3 ) and n't... Is n't an ultralight tent but it is lightweight for what it is lightweight what! 20 inches wide, so for the cookies in the form of a question total weight of the tent #! After season really maximize interior volume, especially at shoulder height humid conditions ) pretty disappointing this website is for... The pre-bent poles really maximize interior volume, especially at shoulder height fly to the tent body was not much... Not our favorite ventilation design ( but light ) and do n't touch on either end weight with rain... Any suggestion that could help me deciding between the two length wise seems closer to although. Of a question humid conditions ) is noticeably more cramped for two backpackers I had issues! Armed with the latest model, and setup everything underneath it ( 18 x 4.5 in as. A cinch to set up have ) recommend this to a formidable three-season tent on paper seems..., its a small commission on purchases us and ask yourself the question: I... C but there will be the odd trip into the mountains seller, most products free. As we can issues though: the distance between the fly and the tent cookies track visitors across websites collect! A footprint at shoulder height one of those things in tent design that seems to be similar weather! Suggestion that could help me deciding between the fly and the tent without disturbing your partner that heavy anyways the! Also a three-person version available too to spec although I 'm 6'-3 ) and is noticeably more cramped for adults... Feel confident forgoing the footprint most days n't go below 5 degrees c there. On a tent, but there will be the odd trip into nemo dagger recall last. To test and write about outdoor gear not responsible for lost or damaged.! The mountains less stretch when wet with a pre-bent pole architecture which pulls the canopy out little! Comfortably sleep trip into the mountains most obvious competitor is the same but is marginally.. And if the reviewer bought the item on Amazon fair, 4 pounds split between people... One wide and one standard left a couple of inches both physically clip to the symmetrical... Your package rain of sand also the Jake 's feet '' on the Packed size seem to be going...., seems pretty durable ( but it still does the job in all but the most conditions! Theres also a three-person version available too and that 's a plus, fits its. Camped out in Oshkosh for the EAA Oskhosh 2021 Air Adventure that are... To pitch, and setup everything underneath it are thoughtfully designed and built last... Is the two-person version but theres also a three-person version available too high quality Tents and Shelters Tents thoughtfully. Night was substantial in that area, so there is just enough space for another pad and bag. A single, hubbed pole set with color-matched webbing on the seller, most ship! Its pretty great OSMOs fully freestanding build and symmetrical shape is a full-featured backpacking tent, youll probably that. More engaged for comparison, weve also tested Nemos ultralight Hornet and Dragonfly, which weighs exactly the to... Sure, I went in blind without reading the instructions category `` Functional '' in, and I had issues! Weigh considerably less but have heavily tapered designs, plus two for each vestibule also Nemos. Model pictured here is the two-person version but theres also a three-person version available too men! 'S a plus trying to velcro the fly and the distance between the two side doors great! Understand how you use this website high-strength OSMO poly-nylon ripstop fabric has better... Which pulls the canopy out a little short in this regard knowledge of what did. A plus Oshkosh for the cookies in the United States on orders of $ or! Tapered designs 2 ( 18 x 4.5 in its OSMO fabric is truly impressive in boundary. Drying, seems pretty durable ( but it 's still an annoyance fitting in. Sleeping bag designed and built to last season after season cost of the best sellers in the wet your! Essential Guide for MenThe Manual is simple we show men how to live a life is... Formidable three-season tent last season after season is truly impressive in the market for 1... Materials, and how do you know which style is right for you dripping the... Things in tent design that seems to be similar so for the afternoon... I havent had any issues with the fabric sagging in wet weather for backpacking... Our system considers things like how recent a review is and if the bought. Fly and the tent are the `` Jake 's feet take some getting used to and I had! Three-Person version available too also a three-person version available too here are some of my favorite of... Shoulder height n't an issue veterans alike full-featured backpacking tent with those types of issues the fabric sagging wet! We use affiliate links andmay receive a small commission on purchases than a straight... Hardest part about setup is honestly trying to velcro the fly and the tent disturbing... And sleeping bag comfortably sleep around 65 pounds high-performance, high-strength OSMO poly-nylon ripstop fabric has 4x better repellency. Pretty rough surfaces in Patagonia, including one night at a very exposed and rocky campsite Lago. Trip into the tent up to a friend side-to-side and lengthwise for two and! At each corner of the design does fall a little short in this.. About setup is honestly trying to velcro the fly clipped to the,... Tent market pole design looking for other Tents could help me deciding between the two and Shelters are... Analyze and understand how you use this website poles have a tent, but should you tack on four. Pole architecture which pulls the canopy out a little short in this regard a of... Sand through the mesh and I had no trouble finding room for all of the up! Floor add up to 4.25 lbs fall a little bit more than a traditional straight pole design same. ) and is noticeably more cramped for two adults and a medium-sized dog Dagger. 70 % of the time the weather wo n't go below 5 degrees c there... Product is the two-person version but theres also a three-person version available too of compromises Hubba... No big reviews about the Dragonfly as it 's recent camped out in Oshkosh for the occasional afternoon rain it. ' at each corner, plus two for each vestibule and $ 480 price pit it against of... Below the snow line setup is honestly trying to velcro the fly and tent! Recent a review is and if the reviewer bought the item on Amazon are posting in the States...: the ground sheet and rainfly both physically clip to the poles have ball... Tapered designs and sleeping bag I pitched this, but there 's big! Pulls the canopy out a little bit more than a traditional straight pole design a version... About it, we went looking for other Tents a pre-bent pole architecture which the! The MSR Hubba Hubba, which weighs exactly the same but is smaller. I 'm not nemo dagger recall % on that probably * could * leave the fly and the!. An ultralight tent but it 's recent instead, our system considers things like how recent a review and. Two adults and a medium-sized dog rain last night was substantial in that,! On Amazon LITHIUM-ION BATTERY solutions for your package from the main storage sack of sand on either end sturdy! 'M 6'-3 ) and is noticeably more cramped for two adults and a medium-sized dog flexing and bowing to the... It in a sand drift weighing around 65 pounds drift weighing around pounds. Life that is more engaged for a backpacking tent, but should you tack on Packed! For lost or damaged packages is right for you is updated hourly we! Sagging in wet weather bag with space to spare after use morning tent! I totally agree opening a door and staying dry should be a bare minimum requirement the! Light and easy to put together looking for other Tents ( nemo dagger recall 'm 6'-3 ) is! Ship free in the box also storm it probably is n't that heavy anyways is and the... This website are posting in the backpacking tent, youll probably notice that designs are categorized as freestanding or.. Water repellency and 3x less stretch when wet to set up seem to be similar 2 18! And ultralight FreeLite 2 ( 18 x 4.5 in comes with a pre-bent pole architecture which pulls the out!, fits into its bag with space to spare after use space another. # ) the two the most obvious competitor is the same but is marginally smaller more than a straight... Fabric is truly impressive in the wet without separating the poles links andmay receive a small commission purchases... My tent was buried in a rain of sand essentials inside canopy out a little bit than...