When he then asks "do you mean 3 a.m. or midnight" he's leading the witness. You say Linda had some things going for her but her Mum recognizes that she was deficient in Linda's life, paying more attention to her siblings and not really being there for Linda at that critical point when someone who is in that vital crux between adolescence and young adulthood really needs a listening, tolerant but firm and experienced, caring and guiding hand; her stepfather, as many have found with theirs, doesn't appear to have played a valuable part in her life; she saw her actual Dad twice in 15 years. [STOP right here! The twenty-year-old girl was arrested in New Hampshire yesterday on a fugitive warrant for Los Angeles police who want to question her in connection with the murder of . But none of us can say what Tex's life might have been if he had stayed in Texas instead of going out to trippin Cal and soaked his brain in bella donna. How could you skip that? If Kanarek had handled this properly they never would have heard it. Linda married again, this time to a hippie named Robert Kasabian. Because there was no doubt that I knew that what was ever going to happen here was not going to be good. More languages Manson Blog Locates and Interviews Son of Clyda Dulaney! When Charlie meets with Susan, even though she's plumbed him firmly in it with confessions, articles, interviews,a book and a grand jury starring role, she recants and ends up granting herself a one way ticket to oblivion.Coincidence ?Tex and Linda, on the other hand, don't see or have contact with Charlie and stick with their stories {even though we know Tex's is bullshit, some of Linda's is corroborated by Joe Sage}.Coincidence ?Fits her personality (disorder? Bugliosi did say that he had planned to question Susan later so who knows, it may have come up. Susan started off saying it, but in a roundabout way {the crime to shock the world and now HS could begin} but from the penalty phase onwards has denied it. Both were at the Spahn Ranch near Chatsworth, stronghold of the 35-year-old Manson's nomadic cult of young people. The Last of the Manson Girls, Sharon Tate-The Biography Sharon Tate Book 2011, The Manson File- Myth and Reality of an Outlaw Shaman, Vanity Fair April 2011 interview w/Charlie in Spanish. I think it's just Pat being nervous and trying to show that they were meant to kill everyone in the house. What did Saint do now? You don't agree. Linda gave birth to a daughter Tanya in 1968. YOu can say she is certainly flawed, self-destructive, has terrible judgement and suchbut applying terms like good and bad just distorts any understanding of the whole shebang. Now taken into considering the location this apparently took place. document.write(part3 + ''); Do you hate everyone who was of draft age during the Vietnam era. There wasn't enough room in the car for Cappy to go, so WHY didn't SHE just hitch a ride down to the hamburger stand, slit a throat and steal some fries ? Her testimony eventually led to their conviction. Back then British law was tough. See the events in life of Linda Kasabian in Chronological Order, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCNtPU0K_oo, https://www.thefamouspeople.com/profiles/linda-kasabian-11099.php. He said he surmised it was the reason. In fact only Tex knew. Anyone know an expert on 1966 Ambassadors? Ruth's Mum wasn't in agreement with Dean and his changes. The young couple moved west last New Year's. A daughter, Tanya, is living with relatives in New Hampshire. When things didn't work out with Bob, Linda decided to go with Gypsy back to Spahn's Ranch. [Bugliosi gives her the answer. It's always the Charlie supporters who make those statements and spread those stories about other motives. Exact chronology and constant detail rarely happens, even in nice things we describe. I still thought I read something somewhere that Krenwinkel said it at a parole hearing or something. Perhaps I'm cynical, and she found joy sponge bathing a freshly soiled senior. The figures show that 86% of the men who died in Vietnam were Caucasians, 12.5% were black, 1.2% were other races. Early on at least however, Atkins was under the impression that doing whatever Tex told them to do meant "Charlie has instructed, OK'd and ratified this. That's hardly her doing. Hippiedom often talked a good game and tried to build a weighty paradise on a foundation so shallow and flimsy that it cracked under the weight of reality. :). In his testimony Clem part corroborated Linda's account and Susan part did to both Richard Caballero and the Grand jury and then later when she was writing her books.and yet, when one looks at where that apartment was, it seems like another kill two birds with one stone job. Lets say Charlie did orchestrate the crimes and he had some private or secret motivation only a very few were aware of. You are trained, instead, to focus on "indicia of credibility and reliability". She chose to be the way she wasAround the age of 14, I chose to be the way I am and have been doing so ever since. Of course, "robbery" also STIMULATES a capitalist society. It was done with no thought, " may offer a window into the confusion and their lack of planning and co~ordination. After that it is Bugliosi, not Kasabian who is testifying. No other reason." It seemed to make little difference because when push came to shove, the jury wanted to know what happened during those two nights of murder and all the sidetracking in the world couldn't get in the way of that. She mentioned to the Grand Jury that there were to be 2 death squads. document.write(part3 + ''); She was one of the earliest to actually begin the process of putting flesh on Skelter's bones. Strike 1! Your Resource for the Tate-LaBianca (TLB) Murders. Thanks for contributing to the blog.That May 1969 article where Linda had her license suspended is interesting. ?Most definitely.Both were at different stages and had come through different experiences.However.there were also some similarities. Bugliosi not only had a story to prove it, but a rather dramatic one in which she prevented it.Secondly, a trip to see the Straight Satans directly after leaving LaBianca could have destroyed the entire Helter Skelter cover story. That is exactly what Leslie Van Houton was charged and CONVICTED forYeah, despite Bugliosi saying in his closer:"One thing is abundantly clear. But my days of name calling with strangers are over, and I don't want to take any focus off this amazing first time effort from Dreath.:). No one knows why. He said something to the effect that Charlie had a very strong case and that there was pretty much no evidence against him. Manson, the mastermind criminal with an "uncanny ability" to brainwash people sent a girl who was on the ranch for a only a few weeks out on a murder mission, and didn't tell her the plan apparently.because she was licensed to drive?NOW. I think what might have happened with Atkins instead of Kasabian is you might not be talking as much about Helter Skelter as a motive. Its Ok to see things differently Grim.You make alot of eloquent points bud. Dostie Demonstrates Buster Alerting at Barker Ranch! :)I'm putting myself in time out for awhile lolHave a great weekend. On a different note: RH- nice post. One or the otherA young Sprite George Stimson and Sandy sit inches away from Bugs and Patti Tate and they all have a pretty good go at it as far as motive and other things :). It's not fact. I should have found a way and not gone over the fence and run down the hill. He is right, the question is not compound. ?I think Linda is one person people on both sides can agree was no good personally. If she was serious about half of what she said on it, she wouldn't have tried to avoid arrest. There have also been a number of stories of the appalling way some care workers have treated the residents so this has also unfairly soured their general image in the minds of many. I don't remember did she show a license or maybe she didn't even have one to show? Her contentious relationship with her stepfather eventually led to her dropping out of her high school and running away from her home. look at there high school pics- they had the same kid of background as me lol. LISTEN Carefully, Dreath is telling US the LaBianca house was a "robbery" gone BAD.Well Dah ! The stuff written at Waverley gave the prosecution case legs, backbone and a gravitas it might not otherwise have had.Another interesting point: Kasabian never said the motive was Helter SkelterAlso important and true. She's the better alternative to a man who says "mean things".I will say Donald Trump and Manson are very similar. I never could figure out a way any of them would have ben acquitted (Thank God!). You are correct. Its not really about dispelling the 'innocent hippy chick' myth its the that I don't believe she told the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. ITS REALLY TOO BAD!! Bob was living in Topanga Canyon with a man named Charles Melton. At least ONE Black man personally died in the jungles of Vietnam so HE could get a FREE Blow-Job.AND it will NOW likely come out that "joining a local police force" was the perfect safe-haven for those WHO only thought of themselves - FIRST.IF you actually take a peek behind the headlines - Oh what a different perspective you might find.Like Johnny MaCain, our GREASTEST surviving war HERO shot down from HIS airplane in Vietnam. Now that is a great question and I decline to answer on grounds I might further incriminate myself. A major opportunity to show the jury that the star witness is a bloody liar ? The TLB story, maybe above all others, is NOT a black/white or good/bad story. I think part of where our paths parallel instead of cross is training. Bugliosi said. Even if all the things said about her are true in terms of immunity and self interest, that doesn't change that. If Perry and other legal dramas were like real life in courtrooms, few would watch them !You are trained, instead, to focus on "indicia of credibility and reliability"That's partly why people on trial will dress "respectably." But not every brain is wired the same - our neurotransmitters are just ridiculously different in everyone. Before Tate-LaBianca She attended Milford High School in Milford, New Hampshire in 1964 and 1965. As these are total strangers- I feel pity only for those who actually deserve it. Before goofball goes off on Hollywood did I hear her initially say 'she shouldn't have been there'?I'm inclined to not attach much credence to what Sandy says regarding the murders because she told Robert that she was probably the last to find out about them and didn't do so for a month, even though she claims she felt her group had done them and reportedly told Mary Brunner this. At the start of the trial he said "In this trial, we will offer evidence of Charles Manson's motives for ordering these seven murders. The parts I found 'dramatic' would probably pass many people by. Manson Mythos saidVincent Bugliosi said the only reason Linda went along on those two nights, is because she was the only one out of the group with a valid driver's licenseHe never actually said that. LolI thought you sent me there for the motive bit. I read this post and it clearly paints a picture to me that maybe others see differently. Dreath saidyou have a tendency to 'move the goal posts' which makes responding to you rather difficultIf by that you mean that I seem to jump around on the subjects and quotes I'll comment on, that's true. Catch 22s abound.If Linda did in fact have a valid driver's license there is no reason why it would be rejected when she went to see Bobby Beausoleil. I remember one of the things that made reading Kasabian's testimony so hard to read were the number of objections and bench conferences. In 1969, the 20 year old Linda Kasabian met Charles Manson at the ranch and immediately fell under his spell. Why any of them were picked isn't really relevant is it ? In a sense, Helter Skelter and Susan Atkins developed as parallel lines during the investigation. That's about all I have to say. Reading the transcript, sometimes one has to go over his words two or three times and even then they don't line up. Saint, no apology is necessary. The couple had a daughter named Tanya who was born in 1968. Dreath saidAt what price, my friend? That means a lot. Early Life Both have different conclusions.I don't know what you get from that but I know what I get from that. Linda Kasahbian supports herself on welfare,for having illegal kids the state has to support---we need less Linda Kasabians!! St Circumstance saidand then left her child with the people who she knew committed themWhile this is generally taken as evidence of her total unfitness as a parent, for me it's more significant that she left her kid with a group whose child rearing methods she did not like than the fact that they had murdered. She felt that he understood her when he said that she had a father hang-up. And IF a soldier goes out NOW and shoots-up the town, it's likely because HE has PTSD.I recently heard that the police chief of a major city was going to bring in "grief" counselers to treat his officers for mental "trama," because some of THEIR buddies were KILLED in a shoot-out with a crazy guy. When he meets up with or has contact with Pat, she waives extradition, even though she's told Claude Brown she's scared of Manson finding & killing her. I'm saying a good DA could have convicted them using that tool and yes, Van Houten is the example. In late June of 1969, she attempted a reconciliation with. Plus Tex's born-again act just comes across as to smarmy and sanctimonious. But I'd force myself to read them just in case I missed something.And I still did ! I've never thought of it like that. Dreath, pleased to make your acquaintance. At the front door, she ran into a stabbed and beaten Wojciech Frykowski. The good guys are the victims, the bad guys are the killers. At the age of sixteen, she married but it ended in a divorce. Grim, I have to disagree with you a bit. That is cover something up, replace it with something dramatic to help my case.Bug said Linda wasn't involved in any trouble prior to being at Spahn, yet he forgets she did admit to dealing drugs. Therefore, as far as I can see, the description of Linda as a hippy, as was understood by those not in sympatico with any countercultural thought, is pretty accurate. document.write(part3 + ''); Linda Kasabian falls prey to the hypnotic charms of Charles Manson and his self-proclaimed "family" during the drug-fueled summer of 1969. He asks her again and she reaffirms the timeframe. But Versailles partly contributed to that and some of what he did for Germany was good. Reality is that some members of the victim's families (Debra's daughter comes to mind) might have been totally unaffected by 8/9/69. I'm kinda thinkn' there were plenty of precursors, gleefully ignored, or dismissed.Linda's report cards packed with A's and B's? So if I appear to be defending her or anyone else that is generally presented as unsavoury, it's because I think there should be a balance to anyone spoken about.Even Charles Watson. Her testimony eventually led to the convictions of Manson, Watson, Atkins, Krenwinkel, and Van Houten. There is some fiddling and fuddling around the issue, all three men clarify that it was to be so but none of them ever push Susan or Leslie on it because the 2nd death squad didn't actually do anything. To cover up that that tried, but failed to kill some other guy or.to keep Straight Satans out of it? Grim, I love you to death and read everything you post but you have a tendency to 'move the goal posts' which makes responding to you rather difficult. Of course he knew from the start the jury would question this. IF I was one of the defense attorneys, I would have asked Linda and most other Prosecution witnesses:1) I'm a little confused and maybe you can help us ALL understand this Helter Skelter business a little better. It was better for him to say nothing at all and deny any knowledge or complicity than it would have been for him to start opening doors and admitting that he'd known what was in the wind. For after she departed that gig, she took to the drug community like a fish to water.Florida changed her? Linda then traveled to Boston, where she married a. In HS Bugliosi more or less says the same thing. But telling Charlie "You drive" and "I'm not you Charlie" was OK? Reading through the court transcripts, what is often presented in HS as a dramatic moment is actually quite tame. The reporters ? The problem of course is that Bugliosi does not want that answer. According to cielodrive.com, Linda and Robert lived together for three months, however, they divorced when she was 17 years old. The couple divorced and she married again to Robert Kasabian. // -->, Manson Blog Tour 2020! Imagine what Van Houten's attorneys could have done with that 1976 Globe reporter and a trip to New Hampshire. (click for details). In August 1969, she was instructed by Charles Manson to carry a knife, a change of clothing, and her drivers license and drive the family members Charles Tex Watson, Susan Atkins, and Patricia Krenwinkel to 10050 Cielo Drive, the residence of famous director Roman Polanski and his eight-months-pregnant wife, Sharon Tate. She later remarried and had a daughter; however, the marriage was not stable again. Hands? Linda wanted to patch things up and therefore went to Los Angeles. How do you know it would have been a black service member? It's intriguing if nothing else. In the most beloved profession in America we are trained to disregard the Parry Mason notion of courtrooms: someone actually out and out lying on the witness stand. I think after I began to beleive it was extraordinarily difficult to connect Tate and LaBianca on any other theory you are sort of left with HS or something like it. He wants midnight. It's no wonder her Mum was in despair.Linda showed amazing strength and guts to testify in the trials that she did but I don't think it's unfair to suggest that when it came to actual life and real living, she was one of the worst adverts for the counterculture and to some extent, gives the establishment their own justification for trying to pick apart the movement of those heady times. She has been portrayed a number of times in films. Murder Cases of the Twentieth Century - Biographies and Bibliographies of 280 Convicted or Accused Killers, discrepancies between evidence and narrative, discrepancies between physical evidence and testimony, Manson Exposed A Reporter's 50 Year Journey into Madness and Murder, Manson Speaks: Inside the Mind of a Madman, MANSON The Live and Times of Charles Manson, movie review. If Manson was the God to these people and everyone else was disposable. These savage murders were not committed to effectuate a robbery. Over time, she has been depicted by numerous actresses in different movies. But, again, all good. AND were there NOT enough "pigs" in Chatsworth ? The perfect storm of just the wrong type of personalities- mixed in with just the wrong type of older influence who made their dark desires ok to live out. I would have testified without a deal" translates when the evidence is revealed to 'I'm not talking even if the sky falls (but I will for immunity)"I thought that story was a pretty lame red herring and so without context. You are correct, alone it is meaningless. Member of the Manson Family (born 1949) Add links. Which scares people in a society where every wants to blame a white man for personal or political gain. Everything he did was part of a plan to wage a horrible warDon't get me wrong, I'm not a 3rd Reich admirer or apologist. Linda married Robert Peasley when she was only sixteen-years-old. They were to be the vanguard the race war. It is usually something unrelated to what they are being asked like Krenwinkels Sharon wasnt supposed to be there comment I read about somewhere. ALL this trying to make sense out of the Helter Skelter race war reminds ME of the "Gott'a KILL the Commie Gooks on the other side of the world" MOTIVE for the Vietnam War.The worst Communists were ONLY 90 miles off Florida and posed a REAL threat to America. 2. Look at the words Mr. Fleischman uses- I see him convincing her she needed to be a prosecution witness and helping her knock Atkins out of the box. The question is why would Atkins leave Sharon, alive and alone, in the house to take this little stroll? I embarrass myself when I insult anyone let along groups of people. Today Mrs. Kasabian was granted a two-week delay before entering a plea in the Tate murder case to enable her attorney to study the grand jury transcript. He'd lose his train of thought and numerous times the Judge would ask him to put things in ways that could be understood because he didn't have a clue what Irving was on about. One gunshot would have sufficed. They are inadmissible on direct examination because the answers are deemed unreliable. And what that says to me is any answer that follows that last question is unreliable. What if she wouldn't have testified? And more than any other witness, Linda Kasabian's testimony helped convict Charles "Tex" Watson, Susan Atkins, Patricia Krenwinkel, Leslie Van Houten, and Charles Manson. I can give you a few: By 1974 31% of adolescents with divorced parents dropped out of high school, 33% of adolescent girls whose parents divorced became teen mothers 11% of boys who came from divorced families ended up spending time in prison before the age of 32. Early Life. So many people make so many arguments about how unfair life has been to them. Who should we rely upon? There are several occasions where he brings out testimony he doesn't need for a conviction just to make her look good. Her parents separated while she was still young with Rosaire remarrying and moving to Miami, Florida. [Her statement obviously threw Bugliosi]A. Manson Mythos saidAbout the license, it had to be expiredNo it didn't.Bugliosi said that was the ONLY reason she was "picked"Exactly. Manson Blog Considers the Brotherhood of Eternal Love Connection to TLB. Her mother, Joyce, remarried too; however, Linda did not get along well with her stepfather Jake Byrd, who according to her treated her mother and herself badly. St Circumstance saidIf you read this post and think Linda is someone to pity and use positive phrases for, or defend- that is coolIt's more a case of trying to examine all the angles and conclude based on the myriad differences one finds therein. In view of the unbelievably savage nature of these murders, and in view of the fact that hardly anything at all was taken from either the Tate or the LaBianca residences, and in view of all the other evidence in this case, including the statements of Manson, Watson, and Atkins that I have just referred to, a conclusion that these seven murders were perpetrated to help carry out some burglary or robbery would not seem to be consistent with the evidence in this case. Linda took the witness stand in a series of trials and retrials. and the reward]A. I cannot say a definite time because, as I said before, I had no concept of time when I was there. She told the jury her perception of what time they arrived at Cielo Drive given they had no clocks. Very Well Saidand again. There were bits that really made her look cheap, like when it was brought out that Joe Sage helped her out with money and Gary Fleischman's name because he wanted her to be his doxy..and she obliged ! One either believes it or one doesn't. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dE8_N-eBm_4Bill Clinton in London during 'Nam was a CIA plant who spied on the Anti-war protesters. To me it seems that whatever Pat and Tex thought they were killing people for- would be the motivation or motive for the crime by definition.Even if they realize they were duped later. I read it otherwise. "We'd got the indictments. Ask Van Houten. And nothing she said could ever be used against her co~defendants.and Leslie lined up right behind her to do the same by puttin' on the crazy brainwashed actYou frequently say this even though it is frequently pointed out to you that this simply isn't the case and demonstrably so. On August 8, 1969, Linda was selected to drive the killers to the Tate residence because she had the only valid driver's license. I have read the trial transcripts, I know that site. That is not my version of Clearly loving your children, but again these are just my opinions.Both of these people were involved in murder or attempted murder. Yes. Man, that got ugly in a hurry. It is amazing to me how many people express feelings such as sympathy about people like Leslie and Linda Good, bright people in some cases?? Thank you for this post- very interesting and thought provoking. Later, in an effort to give their marriage another chance, she joined Robert Kasabian in Hippie Hangouts of Topanga Canyon, Los Angeles, California where he was friends with Charles Blackbeard Melton. They had a second child together, and Robert Kasabian left for South America. That is o.k. A trip to see the SS might have broken his case apart and make another witness (DeCarlo) useless. RH: no that's not what I am saying. "I am here because I wanted to tell the truth. About the license, it had to be expired. PS: according to her cross examination at the Watson trial she was also arrested in Haight-Ashbury in 1967. His closing argument, like the closing argument of any attorney, is just that 'argument'. Eventually, she. 2 facts will always remain, namely that Tonya was safe and returned safely and that Linda set out out to retrieve her and did so.even in the worst of circumstances- people can make their own fate / But not Linda. Anniversary thoughts- Leary7 said it best. It probably seems quite insensitive to say this, but lots of people have lost loved ones to murderous violence and in addition, Rosemary LaBianca's daughter Suzan at one point demonstrated that not only was it possible to get over it, but that forgiveness and it's aftermath were realistic propositions. St Circumstance saidThis is a girl who started breaking laws at a very young age.