Suomenusko retains a sizable number of provinces throughout the game and it is very easy to put the fear of Ukko to other religions, whether you start in 769, 867 or 1066. The principal ability of defensive pagans (Romuva, Slavic, Suomenusko & African) is a tremendous boost in combat when fighting on home ground. (There is one exception. I picked Daring the first time, which allows prepared invasions, which is useless for the Roman Emperor. It got to the point where I was raiding not based on gold or number of holdings or artifacts or anything like that, but simply based on the size of the ruler's court; I figured it would give me more chances to capture folks for the sacrifices. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts, https://ck2.paradoxwikis.com/Pagans#Reformation. Note that Germanic pagans have as a holy site the county of Braunschweig, and taking that county will trigger the Catholic crusades (as well as the formation of every Catholic Holy Order but the Knights Templar) at the time that you take Braunschweig, so long as the year is 900 and the province is Christian. I like Buddhism because the combination of concubinage and heir-nomination means you can end up with an unbroken line of Strong Genius rulers if you play the genetics game well, but unfortunately they're lousy at expansion. While you're spreading religion across the world, why not check out some of our other guides on Crusader Kings II. Youre all but guaranteed the successor you want, and unlike Open succession you dont have to worry about your AI heir doing stupid things when you land them. Diviner read signs before a war to try to improve troop morale. To help in the struggle against unbelievers, each reformed faith gets a single holy order. Out of all the Succession Doctrines, Meritocracy is probably the safest. Also, as tech advances, rival feudal realms can take advantage to construct better buildings for greater economic and military power. Tax on subjects of different religious groups is allowed. It is really painful to expand with CBs at our disposal as Peaceful religion. Holy sites: Nishapur, Bost, Cairo, Kabul, and Multan. I've played as African pagan a lot since HF dropped and I'd never ever take TG over AV. Daring is a good way to lose moral authority because AI is incompetent, and we as a player will need prepared invasion only once (maybe twice). Penalty to moral authority (-15%) and to mission. Reformed pagans will gain a sudden bonus to their conversion rates. Combined with not paying any penalty for raising their vassals' levies, this means offensive pagans can muster forces far beyond what their technological levels would suggest. The Short Reign relations modifier is three times more severe for pagans. Moral Authority edit Main article: Moral authority However, there are always playable rulers and provinces for this particular religion in Africa. If you've ever wondered about in CK2, how do you change religion, now you know! +5% Morale of armies. Hellenism (Priests cannot marry and cannot inherit), Incompatible with Religious Tax and Civilized doctrines, Incompatible with Sons of Ragnarok doctrine. The opinion bonus and extra piety is always useful, which translates into a more stable realm. The version without a religious head and Great Holy War becomes a heresy and is called the "Old" version of the religion. Great Holy War against a single disfigured child. This shows another bonus from raiding culture; with the combination of Equality and concubinage, kidnapping male princes also allows for strong claims for heirs on raided lands, and the prestige of having noble male consorts for female rulers. When I started writing this tier list I wanted to put all natures in one tier, but realised I have never really used dogmatic and proselytizing because they feel lackluster to me. Pagan religions may gain a religious head and a Great Holy War (Crusade CB) if they reform. I wish it was more interactive (e.g. I admit I have not played Hellenic yet but it sounds awesome to me. But you're right, in some situations it's really powerful. Reformer picks two doctrines. Only disadvantage is that AI rulers will never convert counties but you can do that yourself). Partially redundant with Children of Perun doctrine. The best Doctrines by far are the two "Clans" option with the slight edge to Enatic. However, it is good when you expanded before reformation, and want to settle down and rely more on our vassals and domain rather than stats of our ruler. Except if you have founded bloodines with male rulers already. I would say go with the form of paganism you like best. All units gain 80% to defense when fighting enemies in a province of the combatant's religion. Engage in courtly intrigue, dynastic struggles, and holy warfare in medival Europe, North Africa, the Middle East, India, the steppes and Tibet. Seabound is just useless without Daring and picking these two doctrines is silly (unless we are not getting bored with constant raiding on our foes). Equality allows the player to not only land females, but also to get even higher scores since female dynasts could have consorts, who as concubines provides prestige. Pagans being attacked in a holy war by Christians or Muslims may choose to save their realms and end the war by accepting the faith of the invaders. Unrelenting cannot be picked with unyielding, and it cancels out any unreformed levy or troops bonus. +1 piety per month while at peace. Due to the Germanic faith's long and combative relationship with Catholic western Europe, there are a number of unique events between them. Ancestor Worship decision available. Possibility for a woman to take consorts is disallowed even if other traits should unlock it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Igw2ec-Lp6c, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZVIEA1cbSo, UNITED STATES - The Cathar United States of Byzantium and Carpathia, https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/regional-livonian-mod.849150/. Holy Fury Pagan Reformation Tier List & Discussion. In game terms, all pagan religions fall into one of two broad groups, with a few exceptions - the offensively-oriented Germanic, Hellenic (Greco-Roman), Tengri and Aztec faiths, and the defensively-oriented Romuva (Baltic), Slavic, Suomenusko (Finnish), African, and Bn (Tibetan) faiths. I will explain some of my choices based on how it worked out in my games. I think that'd be the best. It requires either control of three holy sites and 50% moral authority, or control of all five holy sites. The Fun element of Proselytizing is that its the only nature that actively allows you to actively convert (outside of mass conversion events) foreign leaders to your religion. Rulers who are neither at war, nor raiding, nor bound by an active truce lose a significant amount of prestige per month. Top tier for me are Catholicism/Fraticelli and the Muslim ones. Proselytizing allows for faster conversion and you can also try to convert AI leaders with your court chaplain/diviner (or whatever the position is called). Defining features in-game: Low-tech non-pagans have very low Supply Limit in Pagan counties. To debate theology, go elsewhere. It combines mechanics from Dharmic religions and defensive paganism and offers quite a unique gaming experience. If there is levy size & attack bonus from unreformed religion, levy & garrison bonus from Unyielding nature or offensive bonus of Unrelenting doctrine in first doctrine slot, it is lost. Such penalties usually function to prevent any rival faith from taking their lands in spite of being relatively weak and of a rival faith that normally could be easily holy warred. I was new to HF just like everyone else and I had no idea what the end result would be. This discussion is purely about game mechanics. PegaluxX. Any tribal leader, whose religion is pagan unreformed, neighbouring a realm whose leader's religion is organized - e.g. Children of Perun is weak. Prisoners of different religions can be sacrificed for Piety. Each one can only occur at a certain, and different, time each year. Access to Hermetic society. Dogmatic: See above. The sun is reflected beautifully on his bald head. I used syncretism as my doctrine in my Jurchen Bon game, its nice little bonus to relations if we want multi-culti empire, with a bit of rng help we can get 2 sympathies at once (with the use of faith focus). Incompatible with Harmonious, Agnatic Clans and Enatic Clans doctrines. Having a hard time picking between prepared invasions and Meritocracy, either epic land grabs, or being able to designate best heir.. Bloodthirsty gods is very fun, we can get a bloodline, have our champion win several death matches, and we have access to Flower War cb which cripples enemy economy when we win. I can't disagree strongly enough with this. Ilmen is also surrounded primarily by weak Suomenusko and Romuva pagans and is shielded by an ocean from the Norse until the Viking Age event triggers, giving plenty of time to solidify power. Though, Unyielding isnt perfect. Also for flavour. This is in addition to the pagan homeland attrition penalty, which forces the large numbers of troops needed to invade a defensive pagan home territory to face severe attrition for the duration of any siege. Reformed religions lose access to subjugation wars, one of the fastest ways for pagans to expand. Some other day I read that this isn't a bug and it's working as intendent IMO Enatic is much, much better than Agnatic, because Agnatic prevents you from matri marrying, which means any chance to get a non-crafted bloodline is over, and because there are immensely more targets for matriarchal deposition than there is for the opposite. With Divine Marriage and Hierocratic leader as a vassal, you can repeatedly divorce and marry the same close relative, each time gaining free money or prestige, and piety. Proselytizing: I will be honest, I never picked it. Rurik Rurikid, Petty King of Holmgarr in 867, is the historical founder of the Russian Empire. Messalianism because it's the single most outlandish religion in the game. Faith is widespread in earlier starting dates, among the multitude of petty rulers, but is in decline from 1066 onwards. Ancestor worship, animism and totemistic shamanism dominate, but there are also various pantheons of gods. The faith is widespread in early starting dates, and some of the realms, such as Croatia, are already feudal rather than tribal. Women can take up to 3 consorts. It has synergy with enatic/agnatic or meritocracy, after 9 successful boosts for close family relative we get a bloodline. First off I didn't do any exploits. Espaol - Latinoamrica (Spanish - Latin America), https://ck2.paradoxwikis.com/Pagans#Synergies, https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/holy-fury-reformation-doctrine-list.1115209/. I've had games where several centuries have gone by and literally only one or two guys have been made Venerated Ancestors and they're usually some random idiot. It basically removes any fear of a succession crisis ever again, and Enatic gets the slight edge by basically giving you a free subjugation/crusade option on pretty much any leader in the game due to the rarity of female rulers in general. Autonomous leadership also enables four branches: With the new reformation system, some synergies occur which present new abilities or opportunities to characters of this specific reformed religion. AI looter prefer coastal counties. The religious head can decide upon death to. Crusader Kings II. They can easily convert provinces by pillaging every holding in a province. Bn is also unlocked by Jade Dragon, and Horse Lords allows playing of pagan nomadic rulers. With A Crown Of Thorns, You Became My King Forever. Zunist mechanics are a hybrid of defensive/offensive pagans and organized religions. No Revolt Risk for different religion in county. No female temple holders. Unyielding is a must for small Pagan surrounded by powerful Abrahamic realms. The below table contains all 53 religions from Crusader Kings II, along with all religion IDs, for use in console commands such as religion. Aztec religion only appears in-game if Sunset Invasion DLC is in use. a situation/mechanic that doesn't resemble real life in any meaningful way. Germanic pagans do not have to reform to create the Jomsvikings; instead, they must control Stettin, Wolgast, Rgen or Werle.). But it's because I favor Unyielding nature, and those two don't work well together. Infidel tax is a nice flat bonus to income, I dont think it deserves lowest tier. Aztec religion has no special mechanics, having the usual set of Offensive Pagan mechanics. No female temple holders. I agree, meliorism should have notification. Even as Catholic I would land my kin (I tried to do that as Muslim and learned the hard way via decadence revolts to never do it again). D. Nature: If you picked peaceful nature, I suggest you pick Autonomous leadership(since Peaceful doctrine anyway disables GHW). Patron Deities. Hellenic Paganism : A. For every pagan religion there is a special Doctrine, unique only to them, that is most often than not more powerful than normal Doctrines. Our domain can only grow overtime and we can develop our provinces without fear of it being lost to gavelkind. Also Hellenic religion lacks concubines. Rulers can order subject to Take the Vows, disqualifying them from succession. Reformed religions gain access to holy wars, usable on any target of a different faith (including other pagans). It has its downsides because it makes AI more aggressive and incompetent AI can tank our MA very hard. The only issue is there is a bug (Snow Crystal pretty much confirmed it's a bug) such that the religious head can never be venerated. Women can take up to 3 consorts. Ilmen in 769 already holds Novgorod as its capital, is a decently strong start, and has the advantage of being able to flip to Russian culture once the faith is reformed, allowing the acquisition of the "Russkaya Pravda" achievement. Pagan religions retain some features when reformed, regardless of the features chosen during reformation. Eternal Raiders will take away bonus for levy and light cavalry and give us 10% bonus attack for all our troops, don't know if its fair exchange, I will do maths later, and as I said polygamy just sucks and is a prestige drain, on top of that now tribals with polygamy mechanic (muslims and reformed pagans with polygamy) will use wife mechanics instead of concubines. Characters get a Rite of Passage when reaching adulthood. After the 1200s, most of Lithuania is feudal and by 1337, it stands as the last pagan kingdom in Europe, surrounded by Teutonic Order, Golden Horde, Poland and Novgorod. As temporal head you get to choose who to venerate. CK2 Pagan Reformation - Natures The first thing you will choose is one Nature. I agree with most of what you said but I would put the Civilised doctrine as tier 1. If you need Braunschweig to reform the Germanic faith it is best to conquer it in 769, while the Saxons still control it. Peaceful nature is powerful if you have a huge realm . Another approach is to try new mechanics (to pick Haruspicy, Animism, Veneration) or to add useful abilities to existing faiths (e.g. Reformer becomes the first religious head, PDXCON For example, the average/casual player is probably not going be aggressively bloodline stacking. For Power, Divine Marriage is average. My first choice was Unyielding, Harmonious (Meritocracy + Equality), Stability, and Hierocratic. If you want to play tall/stable, Peaceful is often better. Note that reformed pagans may not send missionaries, the only organized religion group with this distinction. The religion now has a formal head, who gives the faith a permanent +20% to moral authority, and who may, after the Crusades and Jihads are unlocked, call Great Holy Wars. I like Romuva and Suomensusko the best but I don't have much experience with Bon but I think I'll try them soon. Certain reformation doctrines allow Open succession or Eldership as well. True, but I wanted to avoid cheese/gamey mechanics when making this tierlist. actually that "pagan" religion in game is just the generic pagan religion that all pagans had before the "old gods" expansion. There's a mod that fixes this. Agnatic, agnatic-cognatic, cognatic laws are restricted. There are no Hellenic rulers at any start date, but Hellenism can be revived in several ways: There is one special pagan faith that normally only appears in-game as the listed religion of long-dead historical figures. Reforming a pagan faith establishes a formal religious hierarchy and scripture - adapting elements of the Abrahamic faiths in order to more effectively oppose them. You get a 30+ opinion bonus with the dynasty you venerated. Great work!!! If there is levy size & attack bonus from unreformed religion or morale bonus from Animistic doctrine in first doctrine slot, it is lost. Matrilineal marriages are disabled. Edit: I have recommended a combination that gives u an ultra stable realm but if you want to expand and get the SPQR achievement, then pick the Unyielding doctrine and Temporal leadership instead. By PegaluxX, January 4, 2019 in Crusader Kings 2. Keeping moral authority high is also a problem due to weak realms who often lose religious wars. Pretty useless outside india but with gavelkind sucession you can have a demesene of twenty counties. Raiding unavailable if culture doesn't allow raiding.Hunting focus is unavailable.Holy wars and great holy wars are unavailable, but county conquest CB is available.Dueling comes with a Piety cost.Cannot create warrior lodge if it does not already exist.AI rulers will not convert provinces. AI rulers are more aggressive.AI rulers only convert same-group provinces and only when zealous Crusader Kings is a historical grand strategy / RPG video game series for PC, Mac, Linux, PlayStation 5 & Xbox Series X|S developed & published by Paradox Interactive. What options do you think is best for each, norse, slavic, tengri, etc? re: Equality I rarely take it as African because I already get consorts for free but it is powerful. Feudal rulers bordering rivers will eventually increase their fort level to the point that Germanic pagans can no longer navigate those rivers. Generic Tengri paganism allows for more levies. Allows building the Sacrificial Altar feature of Great Temple, Great Stone Circle, Aztec Pyramid and Stonehenge, as well as the Grand Amphitheater. "Converting" for a day so you can join a society seems pretty gamey to me - i.e. Crusader Kings 2 ; Best Pagan mods for CK2 Best Pagan mods for CK2. I may found bridge from new DLC's teaser. With the exception of the reformed Germanic religion, the faith will also immediately gain a holy order. If the last two holy sites are difficult to reach, the best way to obtain the necessary moral authority is through county conquests and raids. Stability is useless without Eldership law. The Short Reign penalty is reduced to merely double the normal amount for Germanic pagans among the same Germanic faith, but Old Germanic pagans will have the full -45 penalty in addition to the heretic penalty. The other pagan faiths have a duke-level religious leader who becomes a vassal of the reforming ruler, similar to the Orthodox religion's patriarch. Before patch 3.0, Hellenic paganism also fell into this category. Defensive attrition is a powerful deterrent in the early game. Defensive pagan holdings also have larger garrisons (bonus varies per religion), making them harder to siege. Reformed offensive pagans no longer lose prestige when at peace. Blood sacrifices is super fun, esp. Most pagan faiths permit female temple holders regardless of gender law; exceptions are noted below. As I said, civilized isnt good for Roman emperor as he is locked into imperial elective, and lets be honest, if we are reforming hellenic religion then we are 99% roman emperor, Problem, realize that I'm a couple months late, but stability is a doctrine, not a nature, sorry, that's bugging me, "I changed my mind about divine marriage doctrine, it actually allows us to breed new bloodlines fairly easy into our dynasty.". Need the +3 demense to have enough personal levies and also +15 opinion combined with Augustus trait and Born in the Purple ( another +15 opinion) is pretty OP. Orthodox. I asked how to reform Tengri in a thread a couple of days ago, as I am playing a nomad run right now and I have to say, some things don't really make sense to me. Unyielding also reduces AI aggressiveness, which can be a negative if you want your AI vassals to attack/invade your enemies for you. Only if I could mark "Helpful" multiple times Is making your concubine who was a "raid-captured daughter of enemy duke" your vassal queen, and then murdering her an exploit? Medieval Dynasty: How to Make a Rabbit Trap, Medieval Dynasty: Can you become King? You can join the Hermetics (without unpausing) via temporary conversion to an appropriate religion (eg. Rulers lose prestige when at peace for too long. There are better options for mix-maxing/efficient play. If dawnbreakers would have divine marriage paired with something else than polygamy it would be tier 1. Nature: Peaceful ( you will rule a massive empire as a Roman and will mostly have Vassal Kings. Recommended Posts. Pagans can grant themselves divorces at will, but with a significant cash payment for the divorce and a -30 relation penalty to the divorcee's family. So I'm not a very big fan of Autonomous. Access to Hermetic society (but Hermetics still suffer -10 temple opinion). However, all the random events based on traits (which drop relations by 15 for those without and raise by 15 for those with the trait) are the same, along with the end bonus of 100 piety and prestige and +15 to vassal relations for one year. The first thing you will choose is one Nature. Tengri, worship of the Sky Father, is the religion of the Steppe and the bulk of its followers are nomads, whose lands stretch from Danube to Mongolia.