Invalid memorial. Osmanl tarihi, Volume 2. [38] She built a public soup kitchen in Makkah.[11]. Hope you got my point. 12-14 George Street In the end, they fought and Mahidevran beat Hrrem or Hrrem let herself be beaten. Also note the rank Kadin or Birinci Kadin ended with Mahidevran, this rank changed to Haseki Sultan (logically this is what happened). This King (Sultan) did not have many successors left by 1511, for his only surviving son was Prince Sulieman (who later became Suleiman the Magnificent). The use of "sultan" for a consort came with the title Haseki, because the full title was Haseki Sultan (Devletl smetlu (given name) Haseki Sultn Aliyyet'-n Hazretleri)that is why. She's a hatun, not a legal wife, still had similar privilege as a haseki, her son didn't become sultan: all the facts point to her not being officially a sultana. Subscribe to our free weekly newsletter and stay up to date on History of Royal Women's articles! [21], Around 1533/1534 (the exact date is unknown),[11] Suleiman married Hurrem in a magnificent formal ceremony. For this reason, she has become a controversial figure in Ottoman history subject to allegations of plotting against and manipulating her political rivals. Therefore they can't be used. [40] Her mausoleum is adjacent to Suleiman's, a separate and more somber domed structure, at the courtyard of the Sleymaniye Mosque. Does the translation really say she was from Euboea?? Moreover, he was famous for his generosity and fair decisions. Even so, a Sultan was NOT allowed to have more than 4 Kadins at a time (Brinci Kadin, Ba Kadn or Sultan Kadin was the first ranking wife), but can have as much concubines as he liked. Birinci Kadin was used for wives only, Brinici Kadin was not used for concubines or ordinary consorts, Birinci Kadin meant First Wife/Senior Consort. If interviews can be cited in Wikipedia for every living or dead person, why there is so much debate in this one? Mustafa became verypopular in the region under the guidance of his mother. [4] Among the Ottomans, she was known mainly as Haseki Hurrem Sultan or Hurrem Haseki Sultan. At his mothers funeral, Murad was supposed to remain in the palace during the funeral. She built numerous mosques, madrasahs, hammams, and resting places for pilgrims travelling to the Islamic holy city of Makkah. Also, a Sultana was a woman in Sultan's family, being a mother of heir apparent living in the Harem at the same time the title Haseki was used for Hurrem, it can be asserted that she was also called Sultana, due to the fact that in her time (when Hurrem came along) Sultana title was already started being used for royal consorts regardless if they were haseki or not, see example of Mahfiruz Hatice Sultan, who was niether haseki nor Valide. [44] This tragedy marks the first time the Ottomans were introduced on stage in France. [20] She pleads with the King to trust her envoy Hassan Aa who took another message from her by word of mouth. [1] Basic Books. The cause of death is a specific disease or injury, in contrast to the manner of death, which is a small number of categories like "natural", "accident", "suicide", and "homicide", each with different legal implications. Dear Phso 2,I think i have made the issue clear which is about the royal woman "Mahidevran" and you shuould not have any doubt or confusion or Question regarding this subject. The cast and crew are taking to the boards asPiraticus Rexopens at The Playhouse this week. She was given many honours after her death. 125.209.82.212 (talk) 15:03, 3 March 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], We see that Birinci Kadin is what a woman who has bore a first child; you're overlooking what I said: it was Hurrem who married legally Suleyman and broke the 200 hundred tradition, not Mahidevran; in any case, she can't be called a sultana. The army, the governors and thepeople loved Mustafa dearly. This article is literally the ONLY one in wikipedia to call a hatun a sultana. If you must, then make the title read as "Mahidevran" only. He was very intelligent and had a strong politic education. Timaru, 7910 Like every woman in the harem, there is little information about her early life; she was from either Circassia or Montenegro. Theories I presented are with facts of ottoman etiquette and evidence from History books. If that is wrong, Wikipedia should never ever cite an interview source in any other article as well. Her full name was Glbahar Mahidevran Sultan 1 due to her great beauty; Glbahar means rose of the spring and Mahidevran means the most beautiful in all. Despite Mahidevrans warnings, he stayed in close contact with the other princes. Yet they were called Sultana for being Sultan's Kadins (Wives) You have a very little knowledge you are only referring to a few (if not one) online source and claiming that was it. You did not saw that did you? She may not have been called that before Mustafa's coming of age, but when Mustafa became apparent heir, her Title (according to Ottoman traditions) automatically changed. Before Hrrem Sultan, every consort was called hatun. In 1546, one more half-brother was on the governors market; Prince Beyazt. ?--Phso2 (talk) 21:39, 26 March 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply]. Please correct that. This new woman was the famous Hrrem Sultan. The name Abdullah may be used as a generic patronymic (father's name) for slave converts but this name was and is very common for any royal family as well as a common family in any Islamic dynasty. She is part of the love triangle with Lloyd and Poppy. Concubine by definition is not a slave. There have been novels written in other languages: in French, a fictionalized biography by Willy Sperco (1972); in German, a novel by Johannes Tralow (1944, reprinted many times); a very detailed novel in Serbo-Croatian by Radovan Samardzic (1987); one in Turkish by Ulku Cahit (2001). It is clear you don't have the intention to make this wikipedia page historically accurate. In the Ottoman imperial family tradition, a sultan's consort was to remain in the harem only until her son came of age (around 16 or 17), after which he would be sent away from the capital to govern a faraway province, and his mother would follow him. commercial banks of the capitalist states book; nicholas martin roosevelt; beiersdorf cleveland, tn closing; the difference between body, soul and spirit 18th century portrait of Hurrem Sultan kept at Topkap Palace. In the 20112014 TV series Muhteem Yzyl, Hurrem Sultan is portrayed by Turkish-German actress Meryem Uzerli from seasons one to three. If you want you may mention an unnecessary word "slave" to the totally irrelevant section of "Origin and early life" but trust me you'll spent your whole life (and next one as well if you're a monk) reverting the changes made by those who have problem with this piece of word. Although Sultans didn't used to lawfully wed their wives, Birinci Kadins were considered and treated just like lawfully wedded wives. Glbahar (given name) 1500s births. Minna Rozen: A History of the Jewish Community in Istanbul, The Formative Years, 1453 1566 (2002). WebMahidevranwas born on January 01, 1500 (died on February 03, 1581, she was 81 years old) in Bosporus. On this Wikipedia the language links are at the top of the page across from the article title. One of the alledged theories points to her mother being addressed in that manner. 190.218.117.86 (talk) 01:47, 29 February 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], I beg to differ, in many books (arts, literature whatever you may call) she has been known as Sultana. Note that I'm not saying that Mahidevran was not chief consort before the title Haseki came into use, but it's clear that she didn't continue to hold the title. Little Prince Mehmet (named after Mustafas half-brother) wasexecuted at just six years old. Mahidevran Turbesi6.jpg 315 470; 18 KB. Some sources say she moved to Topkap, not because of the fire, but as a result of her marriage to Suleiman. Mustafa was later accused of causing unrest. In the times of Suleyman, not everyone could be addressed that way. Thanks to her intelligence, she acted as Suleiman's chief adviser on matters of state, and seems to have had an influence upon foreign policy and international politics. :P Well, like I said, all these efforts prove nothing but if you are convinced read may latest comments on my last reply; "you may add the word slave to Origins if you are still convinced but must also use the term "possibly" along with it to maintain a NPOV." Hurrem died on 15 April 1558 due to an unknown illness and was buried in a domed mausoleum (trbe) decorated in exquisite Iznik tiles depicting the garden of paradise, perhaps in homage to her smiling and joyful nature. Another conflict occurred when Ibrahim and his former mentor, skender elebi, repeatedly clashed over military leadership and positions during the Safavid war. Hurrem and Mahidevran were 2 main consorts. Best R. - Worldandhistory (talk) 16:08, 25 September 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], @Phso2, your provided sources does not particularly points at M's father. Marvin died of natural causes after reportedly being hospitalized after experiencing chest pains On 13th March 2021, Marvin Hagler unexpectedly passed away in his New Hampshire home. Chteau de Blois A favourite royal residence, The Daughters of William the Silent Emilia Antwerpiana of Nassau. commercial banks of the capitalist states book; nicholas martin roosevelt; beiersdorf cleveland, tn closing; the difference between body, soul and spirit Hurrem or Khorram (Persian: ) means "the joyfull one" in Persian. I don't think the Turks would have been so quite and this web would have been still available if it wasn't authentic. Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.218.117.86 (talk) 20:17, 3 March 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], The other wives, also not legally married to the sultan, were called "kadin" or "hatun". Thank you.113.203.163.165 (talk) 11:54, 4 March 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], I think both theories are correct, general logic can be used in Wikipedia IF the sources available contradicts each other, but even if she was called Sultan there is no need to mention it in the Title. [35], She built mosque complexes in Adrianopole and Ankara. 125.209.82.212 (talk) 22:11, 1 April 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply]. [41], Hurrem is known to have been very generous to the poor. It turned out to be a certain Said Perizad Temryukoglu. Not interested? [49] Artists Titian, Melchior Lorich, and Sebald Beham were all influential in creating a visual representation of Roxelana. She frequently accompanied him as a political adviser. This tradition was called Sancak Beylii. It is clear by your statement that you're being subjective about this: you're looking for an excuse rather than solid facts to call Mahidevran a sultana. Bas kadin literally means "Head Woman", and if this "head woman" status didn't exist at that time then why she has been referred as "Ba kadin" or Birinci kadin by numerous books? Jobair khondoker (talk) 17:41, 2 March 2019 (UTC)Reply[reply], "But Leslie P. Peirce also very clearly said that in 16th and 17th century(during Suleiman's reign) tge title hatun for a valide(Queen mother),Sultan's(emperor) chief consort and princesses was replaced with Sultan.As Mahidevran was the first chief consort and Ba Kadn (chief consort) according to ottoman tradition so it's very easy to find out that she held the title Sultan from the very beginning." 190.218.117.86 (talk) 05:37, 3 March 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], A few sources does claim she was a wife. Adding something as controversial as ""she was a slave"" as can be seen here would only draw unnecessary attention of the fans and/or may or may not be alleged descendants, as your content was more like a statement rather than a neutral point of view. Specially every Circassion origin theory. Trk Tarih Kurumu Basmevi. The Venetian painter Titian is reputed to have painted Hurrem Sultan in 1550. There was a seal on the back of the letter. The letters also suggest Hurrem's strong desire to establish personal contact with the king. Categories: 1500 births. On the case of Roxelana, it was a nickname she was given that didn't elevate or lowered her status and wasn't a direct reflection of Ottoman culture but more of the influence she had on history. I was wrong I admitted that and removed the contents sourced from the blog. I shall wait for your response until few days then revert your changes, if you are unable to prove that this "Abdullah" was indeed a slave and not a free person, in which case, M would have been a "gifted wife" (married to S not legally but rather tough Nikah 'urfi). My most sincere friend, my confidant, my very existence, my Sultan, my one and only love. These incidents launched a series of events which culminated in his execution in 1536 by Suleiman's order. 113.203.156.141 (talk) 23:52, 1 March 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], First of all, those references you've cited are: 1) popular culture based books 2) recent and based on art and theatrical depictions; as such, these references are unfounded and misinformed when it comes to Ottoman history. Mahidevran, concubine of Suleiman the Magnificent Birth Place: Bosporus, Turkey Birthday: 1500 Death Date: February 3, 1581(age 81) [32] After three other grand viziers in eight years, Suleiman selected Hurrem's son-in-law, Damat Rstem Pasha, husband of Mihrimah, to become the grand vizier. You can infer and speculate and theorize all you want, but history is history and I find it highly disrespectful and arrogant that you think your abstractions are worth more than the reality of events. I am sorry but Facts do NOT leave room for doubts. She was presented to Suleiman when he was still a prince. And there is lots of lots of doubts about the title of this woman. Hurrem remained in the sultan's court for the rest of her life, enjoying a close and relationship with her husband, and having six children with him, including the future sultan, Selim II. That's very funny!!! Hurrem's influence in state affairs not only made her one of the most influential women, but also a controversial figure in Ottoman history, especially in her rivalry with Mahidevran and her son ehzade Mustafa, and the grand viziers Pargal Ibrahim Pasha and Kara Ahmed Pasha. Subscribe to our weekly newsletter and stay up to date on History of Royal Women's articles! Everyone is emphasizing on only one source for the subjected woman that is of Leslie P. Peirce's and simply ignoring those sources/references/theories they don't like. Later, Hurrem became the first woman to remain in the sultan's court for the duration of her life. Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.101.0.179 (talk) 11:44, 12 June 2011 (UTC)Reply[reply], If the modifiers of this page can identify this reference, then please update. Here are some sources (regardless of their nature) they contradicts the motion that she wasn't called Sultan. She was the chief consort of Suleiman before the appearance of Hrrem Sultan. Whether this phrase refers to a warm friendship between the Polish King and Ottoman Haseki, or whether it suggests a closer relation, the degree of their intimacy definitely points to a special link between the two states at the time. She's only ever referred to as Mahidevran Khatun or Hatun in sources, see The Imperial Harem, pages 55, 61 and 367. And for your info, they all married the sultan and were legal wives, and those that weren't married were called hatun. ((reftalk))Reply[reply], There is no consensus to add the interview of an "alleged descendant" of Mahidevran to this article. In the end, she found herself in Manisa as one of the women in the Suleimans harem. In this case, Suleiman not only broke the old custom, but began a new tradition for the future Ottoman sultans: To marry in a formal ceremony and to give their consorts significant influence on the court, especially in matters of succession. [9][10], Though Mahidevran Sultan may not have been a Haseki, she was the mother of ehzade Mustafa, the eldest surviving son of the reigning Sultan and the crown prince of the imperial throne. This section is full of "possible" origin theories, so mentioning any ""possible theory"" is no violation of any principal. However, some argue that she has Albanian roots. Moreover, she is referred to as "Mahidevran Sultan" in popular history books, TV series and touristic literature. Also, why does these History Books (not popular history books) referred her as Sultan? For the first and only time in the Ottoman Empire, a female sultan exchanged letters with a king. And with all this research you are only proving yourself wrong because NONE OF YOUR SOURCES say that M was a Muslim Convert, rather, they say, Mahidevran, daughter of Abdullah. Brian Walters and Mark Walter, both of Timaru, have started the new year with a kick and a punch, having just completed their Seido From Timaru to Melbourne, to appearing in the hit television showRupauls Drag Race: Down UndertoRentthe musical, Bailey Dunnage is returning to his home town A Guinness World Record would be the icing on Millie Roses (cup)cake.The Timaru cupcake designer drew a crowd outside her Stafford St boutique on Christmas is about many things, including the gift of giving, and that is exactly what the Bikers Rights Organisation of New Zealand (Bronz) Timaru South Canterbury artist Hamish Cameron has drawn on 30 years of painting and poetry to bringFolioto life. [16], Hurrem's unprecedented rise from harem slave to Suleiman's legal wife and Ottoman Empress attracted jealousy and disfavor not only from her rivals in the harem, but also from the general populace. Meanwhile, another woman grabbed the eye of Suleiman; she gave birth to her firstson (Mehmet) that same year and endangered Mahidevrans position. It means there was no external reason for the death, such as a traumatic injury. Since founded in 2002, no complaint about the unreliability of it's sources has been made by Turkey Govt. It was not because Hafsa Sultan was firmly against this unification, but because it was not allowed for a concubine to rise above the status of the Valide Sultan (Queen Mother). Best. Mustafa and Mahidevran were sent back to Amasya. During the campaign against Safavid Persia in 1553, because of fear of rebellion, Suleiman ordered the execution of Mustafa. She had been a servant in the household of Hanerli Fatma Sultan, daughter of ehzade Mahmud, son of Sultan Bayezid II. [17] She did not spend her last years in poverty, as her stepson, Selim II, the new sultan after 1566, put her on a lavish salary. You completely twisted the question and answered what I didn't ask. Simply click 'close' in the top right corner to continue reading! Now Mahidevran became a chief consort as a mother of the only prince in the Empire. Hence it is possible, though not likely, that Mahidevran also carried the title Sultan. The references you've cited present a clear inconsistency with defined Ottoman titles and therefore they are invalid.190.218.117.86 (talk) 16:57, 1 March 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], This is the point, whether she was a main wife or not. The change of titles was to differentiate a legal wife from a concubine/consort/unrecognized wife or however you want to call it. [3] She entered the Imperial Harem, rose through the ranks and became the favourite of Sultan Suleiman. According to late 16th-century and early 17th-century sources, such as the Polish poet Samuel Twardowski (died 1661), who researched the subject in Turkey, Hurrem was seemingly born to a man surnamed Lisovski, who was an Orthodox priest of Ruthenian origin. [22] It was only possible for Hurrem to marry Suleiman after the death of Hafsa Sultan. It's not her possible title and you think this is a joke. Scholars thus agree that European artists created a visual identity for Ottoman women that was largely imagined. He appointed to govern Konya instead of Mustafa. I'll sing your praises always Hrrem Sultan never left the capital to accompany her sons, and she became more and more precious for Suleiman, and afew years later they got married. On the contrary, I sympathize with Mahidevran Hatun. The Tatars may have first taken her to the Crimean city of Kaffa, a major centre of the Ottoman slave trade, before she was taken to Istanbul. There is a possibility of both titles therefore no title should be put in. Learn how your comment data is processed. [16]:130 Suleiman and Hurrem's last child, ehzade Cihangir was born with a hunchback, but by that time Hurrem had borne enough healthy sons to secure the future of the Ottoman dynasty. In one of her letters to Suleiman, she informs him about the situation of the plague in the capital. Where are the administrators of this page anyway? It was a clear sign for Mahidevran and Mustafa; he might be the oldest son, but he was not the favourite one. Not hesitating for a second thought, he offered his beautiful daughter, as a gift, to the young prince." Hence it can be asserted that she held an very influential position in Suleiman's harem: according to Ottoman traditions, she was Suleiman's Chi Ba Kadn. With this letter, Hurrem sent Sigismund II the gift of two pairs of linen shirts and pants, some belts, six handkerchiefs, and a hand-towel, with a promise to send a special linen robe in the future. [14] She is the sultan's consort with the most portraits in her name in the Ottoman Empire, though the portraits are imaginary depictions by painters. Because none of these people neither Ottomans nor foreign visitors were permitted into the inner circle of the imperial harem, which was surrounded by multiple walls, they largely relied on the testimony of the servants or courtiers or on the popular gossip circulating around Istanbul. She is known to be a legal wife before Hurrem Sultan, but not so popular since Hurrem Sultan was the first "slave" to become a legal wife, hence, only Hurrem's being a legal wife is so popular. Sorry cant find sources now that was about 12 years ago. Manisa was the most important province, and according to the tradition, only the favourite prince could be appointed there. She did served as a "cheif consort" (bash Kadin) before Haseki Hurrem Sultan. 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If you ask about Istanbul, the city still suffers from the plague; however, it is not like the previous one. If you are not convinced we can try to get this on reliable sources noticeboard. [25] Also, in Ottoman society, mothers played more influential roles in their sons' educations and in guiding their careers. Mahidevran madegreat efforts to protect her only son from assassinations, but she could not prevent his death. Moreover, remaining in Istanbul, she moved out of the harem located in the Old Palace (Eski Saray) and permanently moved into the Topkap Palace after a fire destroyed the old harem. Around 1541, the Venetian ambassador wrote that Mustafa foundeda great court in Amasya, which paralleled that of his father. Scholars have wondered if Hurrem's alliance with Mihrimah Sultan and Rstem Pasha helped secure the throne for one of Hurrem's sons. If it was up to people making subjective propositions for every wikipedia page, then there would be millions of the same subject; there can't be 6 billion wikipedia pages of the sun, there can't be 6 billion pages wikipedia pages of earth, and of course there can't be 6 billion pages of Mahidevran. 16th-century women. With Suleiman, she had five sons and one daughter. sultanas. She commissioned a bath, the Hurrem Sultan Bathhouse, to serve the community of worshippers in the nearby Hagia Sophia. This woman could be Mahidevran or could also be Gulfem or the first unknown wife of Suleiman. I do NOT understand. Copyright 2023 | MH Magazine WordPress Theme by MH Themes. What matters is, as Nurbanu wasn't a legal wife, she was still a kadin; she is mentioned as a sultana in wikipedia because she became Valide Sultan. It was the first complex constructed in Istanbul by Mimar Sinan in his new position as the chief imperial architect. Hurrem acted as Suleiman's advisor on matters of state, and seems to have had an influence upon foreign policy and on international politics. And you Sir, just decided to crash in and make an edit. She imprinted her seal and watched the council meetings through a wire mesh window. Give me one name of the mother of potential heir to the throne (like mustafa) who wasn't called Sultana after 1500. [11] She was to bear the majority of Suleiman's children. Hurrem Sultan makes plans to get rid of ehzade Mustafa and his mother Mahidevran Sultan as she sees them as a threat for the throne. At 5 years, survival was 45% (95% CI, 43% to 49%), and 43% of the deaths were noncardiovascular. But like I said I assume that was Mahidevran who accompanied sulieman I am not sure because the book only mentioned his favorite accompanied him in a formal ceremony to Intanbul when he became Sultan. Images of the chief consort emphasized her beauty and wealth, and she is almost always depicted with elaborate headwear. Learn how and when to remove this template message, CrimeanNogai slave raids in Eastern Europe, De moribus tartarorum, lituanorum et moscorum, "2 Reasons Why Hurrem Sultan and Empress Ki were similar", "Ottoman Empire History Encyclopedia - Letter H - Ottoman Turkish history with pictures - Learn Turkish", Constantinople: City of the World's Desire, 14531924, "Hrrem Sultan: A beloved wife or master manipulator? However, her philanthropy is in contrast to this as she cared for the poor. Also I would like to repeat a point I made earlier, the interview with her alleged descendant cannot be overlooked. [8] However it is clear,that Mahidevran Sultan also carried the title Sultan as she was the first main chief consort (Ba Kadn). WebMihrimah Sultan (1522 - January 25, 1578) was the daughter of the Ottoman Sultan Suleiman the Magnificent and his wife Hrrem Sultan. Also please keep the recent source in mind about an interview with her alleged descendant. Takabeg (talk) 09:10, 24 June 2011 (UTC)Reply[reply], Someone needs to check the pronunciation: stress and vowel length. As far as I knowWorldandhistory (talk) 09:53, 6 April 2016 (UTC) Look up Idar of Karbardia, he did existed and like I said "even if there is a slightest possibility" then making a statement would be wrong. In 1561, three years after Hurrem's death, the French author Gabriel Bounin wrote a tragedy titled La Soltane. Please stop making assumptions and accept the facts, this article needs to be changed to only Mahidevran, and all the theories and speculations, and doubted accounts can remain in an subtitle, because "doubt" and "speculation" do nothing to educate and help people.
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