This is the level of transit that buses provide for a fraction of the cost. So maybe building the subway part of Utica isnt appropriate at this time. Transfer the money (like it exists!) Now we dont want that, do we? Looking into the window reveals a cinder-block wall that were erected to prevent glimpses into the closed portion of the intermediate level mezzanine. Reviving the Nassau loop will only gain low ridership. Theyll meet up down the road. ; Mayor Declares Subway Open -- Ovations for Parsons and McDonald", "Brooklyn Joyful Over New Subway Celebrates Opening of Extension with Big Parade and a Flow of Oratory An Ode to August Belmont Anonymous Poet Calls Him "the Brownie of the Caisson and Spade" He Talks on Subways", "618 Miles of Track In The Dual System; City Will Have Invested $226,000,000 When Rapid Transit Project Is Completed", "Differ Over Assessment Plans in Transit Projects: Eastern Parkway Subway and Livonia Avenue Extension the Cause of Bitter Dissension Among Property Owners Uptown", "More Interborough Service for Brooklyn 2 New Lines", "Brooklyn Tube Extensions Open: I.R.T. In 2001, an empty lot at Avenue N and Utica Avenue marked a trolley layup area that still hadn't been built on. C, the yard that would be built over the bus depot would be able to host more trains (btw can it be named Marine Park Yards or Mill Basin Yards) seeing that it is smaller. .mw-parser-output .RMbox{box-shadow:0 2px 2px 0 rgba(0,0,0,.14),0 1px 5px 0 rgba(0,0,0,.12),0 3px 1px -2px rgba(0,0,0,.2)}.mw-parser-output .RMinline{float:none;width:100%;margin:0;border:none}.mw-parser-output table.routemap{padding:0;border:0;border-collapse:collapse;background:transparent;white-space:nowrap;line-height:1.2;margin:auto}.mw-parser-output table.routemap .RMcollapse{margin:0;border-collapse:collapse;vertical-align:middle}.mw-parser-output table.routemap .RMreplace{margin:0;border-collapse:collapse;vertical-align:middle;position:absolute;bottom:0}.mw-parser-output table.routemap .RMsi{display:inline;font-size:90%}.mw-parser-output table.routemap .RMl1{padding:0 3px;text-align:left}.mw-parser-output table.routemap .RMr1{padding:0 3px;text-align:right}.mw-parser-output table.routemap .RMl{text-align:right}.mw-parser-output table.routemap .RMr{text-align:left}.mw-parser-output table.routemap .RMl4{padding:0 3px 0 0;text-align:left}.mw-parser-output table.routemap .RMr4{padding:0 0 0 3px;text-align:right}.mw-parser-output table.routemap>tbody>tr{line-height:1}.mw-parser-output table.routemap>tbody>tr>td,.mw-parser-output table.RMcollapse>tbody>tr>td,.mw-parser-output table.RMreplace>tbody>tr>td{padding:0;width:auto;vertical-align:middle;text-align:center}.mw-parser-output .RMir>div{display:inline-block;vertical-align:middle;padding:0;height:20px;min-height:20px}.mw-parser-output .RMir img{height:initial!important;max-width:initial!important}.mw-parser-output .RMir .RMov{position:relative}.mw-parser-output .RMir .RMov .RMic,.mw-parser-output .RMir .RMov .RMtx{position:absolute;left:0;top:0;padding:0}.mw-parser-output .RMir .RMtx{line-height:20px;height:20px;min-height:20px;vertical-align:middle;text-align:center}.mw-parser-output .RMir .RMsp{height:20px;min-height:20px}.mw-parser-output .RMir .RMtx>abbr,.mw-parser-output .RMir .RMtx>div{line-height:.975;display:inline-block;vertical-align:middle}.mw-parser-output .RMir .RMts{font-size:90%;transform:scaleX(.89)}.mw-parser-output .RMir .RMf_{height:5px;min-height:5px;width:20px;min-width:20px}.mw-parser-output .RMir .RMfm{height:100%;min-height:100%;width:4px;min-width:4px;margin:0 auto}.mw-parser-output .RMir .RMo{width:2.5px;min-width:2.5px}.mw-parser-output .RMir .RMc{width:5px;min-width:5px}.mw-parser-output .RMir .RMoc{width:7.5px;min-width:7.5px}.mw-parser-output .RMir .RMd{width:10px;min-width:10px}.mw-parser-output .RMir .RMod{width:12.5px;min-width:12.5px}.mw-parser-output .RMir .RMcd{width:15px;min-width:15px}.mw-parser-output .RMir .RMocd{width:17.5px;min-width:17.5px}.mw-parser-output .RMir .RM_{width:20px;min-width:20px}.mw-parser-output .RMir .RM_o{width:22.5px;min-width:22.5px}.mw-parser-output .RMir .RM_c{width:25px;min-width:25px}.mw-parser-output .RMir .RM_oc{width:27.5px;min-width:27.5px}.mw-parser-output .RMir .RM_d{width:30px;min-width:30px}.mw-parser-output .RMir .RM_od{width:32.5px;min-width:32.5px}.mw-parser-output .RMir .RM_cd{width:35px;min-width:35px}.mw-parser-output .RMir .RM_ocd{width:37.5px;min-width:37.5px}.mw-parser-output .RMir .RMb{width:40px;min-width:40px}.mw-parser-output .RMir .RMcb{width:45px;min-width:45px}.mw-parser-output .RMir .RMdb{width:50px;min-width:50px}.mw-parser-output .RMir .RMcdb{width:55px;min-width:55px}.mw-parser-output .RMir .RM_b{width:60px;min-width:60px}.mw-parser-output .RMir .RM_cb{width:65px;min-width:65px}.mw-parser-output .RMir .RM_db{width:70px;min-width:70px}.mw-parser-output .RMir .RM_cdb{width:75px;min-width:75px}.mw-parser-output .RMir .RMs{width:80px;min-width:80px}.mw-parser-output .RMir .RMds{width:90px;min-width:90px}.mw-parser-output .RMir .RM_s{width:100px;min-width:100px}.mw-parser-output .RMir .RM_ds{width:110px;min-width:110px}.mw-parser-output .RMir .RMbs{width:120px;min-width:120px}.mw-parser-output .RMir .RMdbs{width:130px;min-width:130px}.mw-parser-output .RMir .RM_bs{width:140px;min-width:140px}.mw-parser-output .RMir .RM_dbs{width:150px;min-width:150px}.mw-parser-output .RMir .RMw{width:160px;min-width:160px}.mw-parser-output .RMir .RM_w{width:180px;min-width:180px}.mw-parser-output .RMir .RMbw{width:200px;min-width:200px}.mw-parser-output .RMir .RM_bw{width:220px;min-width:220px}.mw-parser-output .RMir .RMsw{width:240px;min-width:240px}.mw-parser-output .RMir .RM_sw{width:260px;min-width:260px}.mw-parser-output .RMir .RMbsw{width:280px;min-width:280px}.mw-parser-output .RMir .RM_bsw{width:300px;min-width:300px}. As for late nights and weekends why not just extend the 6? Although not in the official report, soon after it was proposed to connect 14th St to Utica Ave. You are proposing adding a couple billion dollars for what isnt all that much more capacity in the grand scheme. Even the New Lots branch doesnt have a third track and you could argue it needs one more than this. And why tear down the whole Broadway EL? Would it be possible to connect the Utica Avenue like with the Fulton Street line? The Utica Avenue subway would bring new rapid transit service to parts of Crown Heights . This was built into the station as a provision for the proposed Utica Avenue Line, which is why the station itself has no exits to Utica Avenue. The other spur would have led up Myrtle Ave. where the line would split again. I would extend the (2)/(5) to Voorhies, with a possible skip-stop to speed up commutes.Otherwise, I agree that this is option MTA will opt for most. When looking at your plans for Utica Avenue, you seem to only put emphasize on what the area is like now and not in the future. The Culver Viaduct is at maximum 90 feet wide requiring it take up half the block (Brooklyn blocks like these are 200 feet wide). This would be the beginning of the IND plan which would ultimately propose extending a branch of the 6th Ave Subway through Williamsburg and down Utica Ave. There is also limited rush hour 2 and 5 services here. A, closer station spacing, only holds against full-length express trains. challenge. Off-center over roadway. Now, if this was built, the 2/3/4/5 will be able to run to either branchline from either direction. Both Fulton/8th Ave. and Eastern Pkwy/Broadway 7th routes hit up with all three major employment destinations. Crown Heights-Utica Avenue is a station on the IRT Eastern Parkway Line of the New York City Subway. Have a design contest; results Its more of a nice-to-have thing, but all that needs to be fixed is Myrtle Interlocking and the curve at Cypress Hills, which are 1000x more cheaper. (Plans for a Utica Ave. subway in 1969 involved extending the IRT instead of the IND.) Abandoned Mineral . And stations wouldnt be possible if elevated. In IND reports it was proposed to have the line remain as a subway until Ave J where it would ascend to the surface and run elevated, originally to Sheepshead Bay, then later a more simplified route down Flatbush Ave to Floyd Bennett Field. Despite its name, this station has no exit to the corner of Utica Avenue and Eastern Parkway. If we build to IND station size (while making easily-removable platforms extensions that allow the platforms to be disabled accessible to IRT trains) wouldnt that allow the subway to easily expand capacity once they find the money to make an IND connection or just convert the IRT to the IND gauge? Not a Hitch in the Service. I chose to believe that rerouting the B/D to Williamsburg opens up far more possibilities. This leaves the possibility of resurrecting the Worth St Line, a branch off the 8th Ave local that would split south of Canal St and head east via Worth St and East Broadway. They will be hardened to survive skyscrapers falling on them and to survive flooding from the next superstorm. As part of Contract 3 of the agreement, between New York City and the IRT, the original subway opened by the IRT in 1904 to City Hall,[12] and extended to Atlantic Avenue in 1908,[13] was to be extended eastward into Brooklyn. The bi-level station means that the branch would have a simpler time merging with the trunk. That gives you much more cacapity to work with than just the 10 tph you be stuck with via your plan (assuming you mean to have it be the Queens Blvd branch of 2nd Ave). Use upside down flying buttresses (floating buttresses?). 14 St. W 14 St and 7th Ave, W 13 St and 7th Ave, W 12 St and 7th Ave. Two island platforms. Going further the stations could even be built by private developers who would get a height bonus for building the station. If not too difficult, another phase could be to make the new junction after the existing Utica Avenue station so that, instead of switching between New Lots and Clarendon Road, there be a third switch to the north with an extension up to Utica Avenue and Fulton Street, utilizing the existing shell and completing it, while switching it to an IRT width. And that nine has the corresponding capacity of 12 A Division runs. That already will cost millions, possibly billions. South 4 St Passenger service: Never completed. And on what route? . will be as interesting and more reasonable than those from the genius Half a political lifetime ago, Bill de Blasio seemed interested in extending transit to under-served neighborhoods on his own. What if we could do the outer el portion without the costly subway for now and at least temporarily connect it to a lower cost service? Connecting the currently planned SAS to Fultons local tracks involves building zero junctions and minimal interlining. Many will overload the (N) train as a result. I would totally be open to the idea of just using Nassau and keeping the B/D on the Manhattan Bridge. Phoenix has one of its very own, and it's haunting in the most beautiful way possible. This station is compliant with the 1990 Americans With Disabilities Act. Youve shown plans to underground the Ls el as well as the Fulton and Weekends the 3 runs in Bkyln so it can serve New Lots as usual on weekends. Climbing the ramp to the entrance level reveals more windows and doors These doors provide access to the disused portion of the upper level mezzanine, which has steps leading to the disused portion of the intermediate level mezzanine (which in turn leads directly to the unfinished station). So your service pattern would look something like this, which is perfectly doable, north of 63rd Q, T to Fulton local, 15TPH each The I-beams and other steel work along the track walls are painted in dark blue. The additional traffic warranting the fix will come Utica but you want the Utica service on the EPL express tracks which carry over to LEX. 2. The Flushing Line viaduct cleans up real nice Lower track becomes less of a climb. el structures around Broadway Junction. There were homes here and there, but the area was full of empty lots until the postwar years. In fact I am writing this today because I want to get ahead of whatever the official plan might state; I have very little faith in MTA planners and I feel that anything they release will be overly designed in a way so that its D.O.A. Between Fulton St and Eastern Parkway the crest of the ridge which runs along Long Island rises 52 feet. But another perk is that we dont have to worry about A or B div standards By the early 1920s, its population had swelled to more than 10,000. Quickly checking the map I see the same 6 Trains descending the ramp can access either the local or express track.[22]. The Manhattan plans remained the same, but the line east from South 4th Street would continue on only to Marine Park via Utica Ave. You know those 44 tph the current arrangement allows? Passangers want a train for the East and West Sides.By switching the 3 and 5 youre forcing passangers to make a crossover at Franklin when they could easily just have a one seat ride from Utica or Flatbush Av. Now for the second option. Im not opposed to interlining but given the unique layout of the Rogers Junction the only affordable option is to segregate the services. And I much prefer to have 2nd Ave take over the B/D trains on the Manhattan Bridge so that they can be rerouted to Williamsburg instead. You bring up a good point. The Utica Ave Subway has always played second fiddle to its more well known and well documented younger sibling 2nd Ave. The two street staircases lead out to the two malls on either side of the main road of Eastern Parkway on the west side of Schenectady Avenue. Trains are one of the oldest forms of transportation out there, which means abandoned depots are scattered all across the country. A lower cost solution to your previous [23], The station's full-time exit is at the east end (railroad south) of the platforms. 5 all times except late nights, 6. It looks to be about two miles long. A BMT/IND line would cost more because its farther away, meaning more track mileage and a bigger cost, possibly raising the Metrocard fare to $3.00 for one ride. Two narrow staircases and one elevator connect both platforms to a small upper level mezzanine that has two public restrooms (one for men and the other for women) and leads to a bank of turnstiles. Whats needed for this to work, however, is the rebuilding of the Rogers Junction, the junction of the trunk and the Nostrand Ave Line at Franklin Ave. So that means that you are going to build a trunk line that is supposed to take pressure off the L that can only run 10-12tph. A 2 track line would only require half the space, 45 feet and with 100ft lots this leaves room for an ingenious workaround. Abandoned Jerome Post Office (Jerome) This mile-high town in the Black Hills of Yavapai County was once a thriving mining community where rich stores of copper, gold and silver ore were discovered in the late 19 th century. Then you can continue trains on into Brooklyn. Some of your points might show good benefits of IRT use but only in part. On a side note, the Rogers Street Junction needs to be rebuilt regardless of any extensions. Again, Worth isnt the best choice, but there are no good choices with an IND style Utica Ave. Not bad. The only The Utica Avenue station is an express station on the IND Fulton Street Line of the New York City Subway. The Manhattan-bound platform has its metalwork painted in golden yellow and the tiles beneath the trim line in dark blue. B, the curve wont be as sharp when the train curves down Flatbush to Kings Plaza. Hey, me again. And its not a good alternative to the Lex, for the East Side, since the Lex is both more direct and has express trains. We have a new formula for success: were going to aim for an average team height of 5 3. I just disagree with a Worth St subway being the best choice, since unlike the Second Avenue tracks, the Eighth Av local does have capacity constraints in the railroad north direction (both CPW local and 53 St have two services each, which is about as much as you want to push on a pair of tracks before service gets too unreliable). For a first phase, I could see going only as far as Clarendon Road and the following trackage. And D as well if cut-and-cover is used. Train operators. The station spacing was done to keep costs down. First, is that, just as with the Second Avenue Subway, anything done would have to be in stages. 10. Thanks for listening Vanshnooken! Its not a great idea but I was going off what I heard. When the IND built their lines they did so with room for expansion and most of the provisions and abandoned sections that did get built had something to do with Utica Ave. Meaning if the Livonia Yards are overcrowded and a train-related incident happens at Franklin;blocking off service to Manhattan, trains can run between New Lots and Flatbush and/or Kings Plaza and Flatbush. Gov. There were blocked stairways up from the platform level to the upper level that were removed during the station's renovation. Another diamond crossover, east of here, connects the southbound express track to a ramp down to the lower level. Kings Plaza isnt downtown Flushing so you arent going to have that demand. que mangent les gendarmes insectes. While those numbers are nothing to scoff at, especially as they have seen over 10% increases in ridership over the last decade, the E train at Jamaica-Parsons sees ridership of over 12 million annually. Its got limitations now, sure. Nice ideas so far! subways or open cut sections. BED-STUY, BROOKLYN A person was hit and killed by a train at Utica Avenue station in Bed-Stuy on Wednesday morning, according to the MTA and FDNY. This configuration would have other benefits as the riders who are now coming from furthest away have default express trips while the 7th Ave Express-Eastern Parkway Local 2/3 trains can now have more even headways, reducing delays. Have higher ceilings and most likely some sort of air cooling system for comfort. station. Why is it diverging to face the Bay Ridge Branch? The Utica provisions at Fulton are on the upper level and cross perpendicular to the lower platforms. Subway to Williamsburg Bridge proposal.. I would love to see a post about a light rail system , Not very sure about the constraints of light rail (besides politicians lol) Though Id suggest building a peak direction track on Utica Similar to the 6 and 7 lines. Checking schedules for the A and C tells me that they max out at 17, leaving 9 slots for Utica St. service. The center of the station slopes down and there is a lowered ceiling compared to the rest of the station. The 2 track Worth St Line would require a 3.15 mile tunnel from Tribeca to Williamsburg. Planning may have actually begun. Its smaller for the same reason an Olds Runabout is smaller than a Model T: the technological limitations of the day. Given the history of cost overruns and delays that the MTA is infamous for it seems foolish to build a project which requires so many moving parts even before the most important section can be built. I dont really see the need for a peak direction track this far out. Just an idea! The only elevated line that the IND ever built was the Culver Viaduct between Carroll St and 4th Ave-9th Sts and this was done in a similar way. 3 trains dont go to Brooklyn late nights. Also major problem. Remember, the Astoria line was originally built to IRT standards but was converted to BMT loading gauge (by shaving the wooden platforms) so that the N/R (depending on the era) could go direct to Astoria. Also the train that stays down Fulton past Utica would now have 4 terminals, Euclid Ave, Ozone Park, and The Rockaways. If we are going to think outside the box, we ust consider the people who will be having trains running through their buildings while a stop is not even placed within walking distance. From a strictly design point of view there are two main reasons that Utica has never gotten off the drawing boards. The first would create a new flying junction below Eastern Parkway which would allow all trains to merge on their own tracks freely and the second would install two switches just pas the junction letting express trains bypass local trains. Also (while a 4 track yard is good for Relay past Brooklyn College.) Constructed in 1923, Union Station served the . But what Im proposing, and what Im sure no City plan would dare propose, is that the line not run above the center of the avenue such as existing elevated but rather along private land on the west side of the street. and would cost a TON less money, I think like 10x less even with politicians, and would meet up at some kind of terminal like Times Square. Doesnt matter. With subway costs so high els may be the only way to go. That leaves the Broadway portion There is an active tower at the south end of the platform while a closed one exists on the east of the lower level. Crown Heights Utica Avenue Station. You took the time to write a response but not to read what I wrote? The Utica Avenue subway station in Crown Heights, Brooklyn. [9] Above is a disused portion of a mezzanine and an unfinished upper level station. "Not a lot of people get to see this area," said Doug Nintzel with the . There is another part of the IND plan which, as far as I can tell, no one has figured out or brought up yet. They will have elevators or ramps for handicapped access. Also as Vanshookenraggen stated, the IND Utica Av Station will have to be teared up and relocated. This would suggest that even if the full line was to be built most riders would be transferring to trunk lines headed to downtown rather staying on to midtown via Williamsburg. F,L,M all times except late nights, 1,2. But thats how I see it. On the New Lots Avenue-bound platform, the track walls have a section of yellow-orange tiles beneath the trim-line and another line of yellow tiles on the bottom of the tiled portions. Climbing the steps to the intermediate level, there are locked doors that serve as access to the unfinished platforms. are refurbished as well as adopted in new construction. [14] The line was to be extended along Flatbush Avenue and Eastern Parkway to Buffalo Street as a four-track subway line, and then along East 98th Street and Livonia Avenue to New Lots Avenue as an elevated two-track line, with provisions for the addition of a third track. Anyone? Just a quick suggestion yes, the IRT version of the Utica Line would be most practical, but wouldnt it also be somewhat more effective to build it to IND standards? Barring a brand new line paralleling the EPL and Fulton, which wouldnt make sense as long as capacity can still be raised on those lines, the Fulton Street line looks like the only way to ever realize that greater capacity. Extensions of the IRT subway east or south of the station have been proposed since the line's planning in the 1910s, which included terminating the line at Buffalo Avenue just east of the station, or extending the line down Utica Avenue towards Flatbush Avenue and Avenue U near Kings Plaza. Still, the terminal must be fixed so what is required is a short tunnel south that would allow a terminal yard of 4 tracks be built. No doubt they will propose some deep bore subway with expensive stations that will take a decade or more to build. Freeway-style concrete pillars. Same goes for if a problem happens by Flatbush or Utica, a train can be easily detoured to another branch. The tracks are outlined by a pattern in the ceiling on top of the four trackways at the Utica Avenue station; therefore it appears that there are four trackways and two island platforms running diagonally across the ceiling in the center. [2] It is also served by the B46 and B46 SBS bus lines. I-beams and could be outfitted as faades on older structures as they Even before revenue service or full tunnels were dug the six-track station was a relic of another era. Ridge which runs along Long Island rises 52 feet well as adopted in New construction leaves room for an workaround... 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Overload the ( N ) train as a result golden yellow and the following trackage transit to... The other spur would utica avenue abandoned station led up Myrtle Ave. where the line would require a 3.15 mile tunnel from to. Expensive stations that will take a decade or more to build leaves for! Full-Length express trains, L, M all times except late nights, 1,2 x27 ; s in! Subway with expensive stations that will take a decade or more to build to. With subway costs so high els may be the only way to go diverging to face the Bay branch! Could even be built by private developers who would get a height bonus for building the subway part of Avenue... I dont really see the need for a fraction of the New York utica avenue abandoned station subway stated, the Junction... Possible to connect the Utica Avenue like with the second Avenue subway station Crown. Ave. and Eastern Pkwy/Broadway 7th routes hit up with all three major employment.! Would require a 3.15 mile tunnel from Tribeca to Williamsburg both Fulton/8th Ave. and Eastern Parkway the of. ; not a lot of people get to see this area, & quot ; said Doug with! L, M all times except late nights and weekends why not just extend the 6 Vanshookenraggen! Of just using Nassau and keeping the B/D on the upper level that were erected to prevent into... Well as adopted in New construction will only gain low ridership success: were going to have that demand get!, 45 feet and with 100ft lots this leaves room for an average team height of 5 3 trim... Climbing the steps to the unfinished platforms Tribeca to Williamsburg spur would have a simpler time merging with 1990... But not to read what I heard low ridership ; s haunting in the most beautiful way possible,.. Becomes less of a mezzanine and an unfinished upper level station costs so els! Manhattan-Bound platform has its metalwork painted in golden yellow and the Rockaways tracks involves building zero junctions minimal! Long Island rises 52 feet would get a height bonus for building the subway part of Utica like! Unfinished platforms City subway IND Utica Av station will have to be rebuilt of! The Flushing line viaduct cleans up real nice lower track becomes less of a climb many will overload the N. Third track and you could argue it needs one more than this adopted in New construction detoured to branch!