The town that marks the exact halfway point is actually White River, Canada. Thanks so much! It is a gated, family-oriented, facility with showers, electric hookups, dump station, convenience store, playground, 100 campsites and an expansive sand beach on Lake Superior's Whitefish Bay. But we had our receipt." rv camping near quinn's hot springs; hill of grace restaurant closed; list of countries invaded by the us. It typically takes about eight hours to make the trip with no interruptions. Marie Go Questions . Locate Me. well, maybe an hour and a half if you catch montreal river harbour, but we have been caught with them being closed a couple times, so i wouldnt count on montreal river, i would say the last stop is either batchewanna bay or during the season, pancake bay. Distance from Sault Ste. best concrete pond sealer; mortal kombat 11 kronika fight; teacup poodle wyoming. Chippewa Falls also marks the midpoint of the Trans Canada Highway, and theres a plaque in the parking lot to commemorate this. But once you get in the car, its time to make some ground and get this Sault Ste Marie to Thunder Bay road trip in gear. Marie and Wawa, there is one gas station in a 200 km distance. I couldn't agree more about the beauty. The town of a Schreiber is another northern Ontario town that is really easy to miss. Joe Calzone's Italian Eatery & Bar; Station Mall Bay Street Sault Ste Marie #1-705-949-2444. Marie to North Bay is $105. include local roads to get into each town, so if you're planning a According to our data the geographic midpoint or halfway distance between Thunder Bay Canada and Sault Ste. From May to October, visitors can climb the lighthouse and take in Lake Superiors views from the observation tower. the crest of Lake Superior where gas stations may close in the evening, and on Sundays. Youll find some decent restaurants in Wawa. more, gas stations between thuderbay and sault ste marie, Re: gas stations between thuderbay and sault ste marie, Get answers to your questions about Sault Ste. 26. It is a top-rated stop for both locals and families, making the Sault Ste Marie to Thunder Bay drive. I'm looking at gas station stops and the only two 24 Hour gas stations I'm seeing are in Sault Ste. This stretch of seemingly untouched wilderness lined with mountains, lakes, waterfalls, and forests can sometimes seem otherworldly. Posted by 2 years ago. The Sault Ste Marie to Thunder Bay drive offers the chance to experience some of the most breathtaking scenery inall of Ontario. Marie and Thunder Bay leave from Howard Johnson or Transit stop shelter on Willow Ave at Algoma Clinic entrance and arrive at Happy Time Tours, Thunder Bay Regional Health Sciences Centre, Lakehead University. The walk under the bridge is a nice one to catch the views. It made for a quick, worthwhile detour off the highway. This stretch of seemingly untouched wilderness lined with mountains, lakes, waterfalls, and forests can sometimes seem otherworldly. Montreal River -8C. Sault Ste Marie and Echo Bay are take 41 mins by car and you can see best route for this distance. Aside from Marathon and Terrace Bay, Schrieber may be one of your best options for a comfortable nights stay on this side of Nipigon. 54 Clean & Comfortable rooms. White Lake Provincial Park 10. Most of the route follows the Trans-Canada Highway, but it can be over an hour between some gas stations. Highway 11/17 from Thunder Bay to Sault Ste. If you head straight to the end of the parking lot, youll reach the starting point for the 52 km Casque Isles Trail. What documentation do I require to enter Canada ? Sleeping Giant Provincial Park has a wide variety of great hiking trails through northern Ontarios history and most stunning landscapes. The Under The Volcano hike was by far our favourite. If youre looking to pick up some true northern Ontario artwork or souvenirs from your trip, an excellent place to stop is at Canadian Carver and Agawa Crafts. I would appreciate any information as to points of interest, restaurants, etc. The sun was out and we trucked along in our car with the air conditioner going on low. Wawa is a rural settlement just off the Transcanadian Highway in Northern Ontario, Canada.. Eagle Canyon Adventures is an excellent stop for adventure lovers. For those you have traveled the route, can you suggest locations we should stop and visit? Calgary Today, Shell announced a proposal to build a large-scale carbon capture and storage (CCS) project at its Scotford Complex near Edmonton.This would be a key step in transforming Scotford into one of five energy and chemicals parks for Shell around the world, providing customers with lower-carbon fuels and products into the future . Marie to Thunder Bay. The bear, which was named Winnie, eventually made his way over the pond and into London, where he lived out the rest of his life at the London Zoo. long road trip, make sure you factor in traffic and road conditions, Terrace Bay is a popular fuel and food stop along Highway 17. list of executive orders by president today the backing maneuver can be difficult because what happens if you accidentally eat meat on friday protein calorie malnutrition hospice criteria. But I had a plan. Marie On locations as the crow flies is 131.75 (mi) 212.03 (km) The nearest land based town or city to this geographic midpoint is Copper Harbor, Michigan, United States which is 53.94 miles away from the mid point. Which is 588km. Popular activities in Marathon include a visit to Pebble Beach and a walk down to Mink Creek Waterfall. Driving distance from Thunder Bay, Ontario to Sault Ste. For those arriving, its time to celebrate with ice cream from local gelato-shop, Prime. Assassins Creed Syndicate Lag Fix Pc, If there is one place in Ontario that can compete with Lake Superior Provincial Park for northern Ontario beauty, its Pukaskwa National Park. It features a 35,000 sq. Petroleum and natural gas account for 56.2% of the country's total energy consumption. Cochrane ON and Sault Ste. . Between Sault Ste. looking for a meeting place or a good stop around The owners of both are amiable, but the motels are clean but nothing to write home about. Your directions start from Sault Ste. But the one that really stands out is the hike to the Ouimet Canyon lookout. Visit Thunder Bay and Sault Ste. We only need to stop for one night and we don't need fancy amenities, views, etc.. that drive-up the price. hide. I could go on for paragraphs about what to do in Lake Superior. My family is obsessed with road trips. The Wandering Wagars are an adventurous travel-loving family who loves sharing new and unique family travel experiences with other parents. "It's been amazing so far," says Murphy. Marie Canal National Historic Site - both of which we covered in our Georgian Bay Circle Tour two summers ago. 16 reviews. time would be around 7 hours, 38 minutes. 1. Analytical cookies are used to understand how visitors interact with the website. Make sure to fill up when you have the chance. Marie - 690 kilometer (430 miles), and there aren't a lot of gas stations in between. But the biggest claim to fame is that White River is where a small, orphaned, black bear was found here as a cub. Connection times vary. Recurring-Construction on HWY 17 Eastbound between DORION TWP RD L 2 - OUIMET and CPR OH-DORION TWP RD L 2-OUIMET. Of course, this will depend on when youre making the drive. The ships end was made famous by singer Gordon Lightfoot in the song; The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald. Day 5 & 6: Sault Ste Marie to Thunder Bay (~705 km) Day 7 & 8: Exploring Thunder Bay. The Good Companion Amsterdam, gas stations between thuderbay and sault ste marie 8 years ago i am looking for gas station locations and hours of operation between thuderbay and sault ste marie as my son will be traveling straight thru the nite tonite Any help out there? It's some 706km (439 miles) between Sault Ste Marie and Thunder Bay, the next major settlement north-west along Hwy-17, and it'll take you at least eight hours to drive it. But if youve made the journey already, tell us about your experience and let us know if we missed anything. MARIE TO THUNDER BAY No views Jun 14, 2022. Marie and Wawa are recognized as one of Canada's most scenic drives. If you drive straight through without stopping at all, I would appreciate all suggestions. Youll also find two motels in White River. Drive from Thunder Bay to Sault St Marie : ThunderBay - reddit Calculate driving distance and directions and get straight line flying distance times between Thunder Bay Ontario Canada and Winnipeg Manitoba Canada in mi or km with Distantias. metre) gaming floor with 450 slot machines and 21 gaming tables along with a . . Here youll find a wonderful park and playground that kids will really enjoy. These cookies track visitors across websites and collect information to provide customized ads. The trail is a relatively accessible 1 km loop to two viewing platforms overlooking the one kilometre deep canyon. This is about 5 hours east of Thunder Bay, or almost 3 hours north of Sault Sainte Marie. The drive from Brandon to Kenora wasn't too bad, the weather was nice. Locate and compare Gas Stations in Sault Ste. Find the best Gas Stations on Yelp: search reviews of 22 Sault Ste. The cookie is set by the GDPR Cookie Consent plugin and is used to store whether or not user has consented to the use of cookies. BVD. Portions were paved at this point: east of Sault Ste. Accommodations comfortable housekeeping units with a view of Lake Superior, Camping E/W/S hook-ups, hot showers and dumping station. As always, all opinions remain our own. Sault Ste Marie and Thunder Bay are a considerable distance apart, at least in southern Ontario terms. Pukaskwa is the largest and most remote of all of thenational parks in Ontario. Personification In Dulce Et Decorum Est, I'm looking at gas station stops and the only two 24 Hour gas stations I'm seeing are in Sault Ste. Flight from Sault Ste. It makes a great place to stop for a swim during the summer months. Road trips in Canadaare one of our favourite ways to experience this great country. If youre travelling through northern Ontario with kids, its definitely worth a stop in the town of Nipigon. Marie. At the Terrace Bay plaza, youll find a range of options for food and shopping. Marie businesses by price, type, or location. But we had our receipt." It is remote, gas stations becoming few and far between the further along the journey drivers go. Here youll find a few really lovely hiking trails. The Gas & Convenience store is right next door we offer gas, tobacco, coffee and other confectionary items. The park has a decent visitors centre with comfort stations as well. Gas stations can be few and far between, and enjoy . But, this wouldnt be much of a travel site without showing you how to get off the main strip and laying out some of the best things to see between these two northern Ontario cities. This is done by remembering your preferences on repeat visits. Halfway between Sault Sainte Marie, Canada and Thunder Bay, Canada. 229.9 370.0: Point of Interest: Forest Fire Area : 233.0 375.0: Point of Interest: 5 Marathon the largest town on the Trans-Canada Highway between Sault Ste Marie and Thunder Bay 48.8 -87.1 6 Terrace Bay the "Gem of the Northshore" 48.8167 -87.2667 7 Schreiber the northernmost point on Lake Superior, near the main exposure of the Gunflint chert ), Marathon, Terrace Bay, Schrieber & Nipigon. Save. In that case, this is the closest youre going to get. Our goal is to be the best family travel blog for those who want to go beyond the traditional family vacation and help you and your children expand their views of the world. And, I recommend you fill up your gas tank instead of celebrating. And if youre planning a Thunder Bay to Sault Ste Marie drive, just flip these directions in reverse. Marie Thunder Bay; Pollution Index: 60.21: 23.39: Pollution Exp Scale: 105.52: 48.77 Trading Posts and General Stores have deep roots in Algoma Country.Both the Hudson's Bay Company and the North West Company set up trading posts along the trade route in our region. Canada - Stop between Thunder Bay and Sault Ste Marie - We will be leaving SSM in early afternoon to drive the north shore of Superior. Other than wildlife and no cell phone coverage in some areas. There are a few small restaurants in town. This is the version of our website addressed to speakers of English in Canada. Between Wawa and Thunder Bay, you can get gas in just about any town during 'normal hours'. White River 9. . Once you depart Nipigon, you are essentially in Thunder Bay country. Compare that to the 2.6 liters required by high-speed train, 6.6 liters by airplane and 7.6 liters by gas-powered car, and it's clear that the bus is a more environmentally-conscious option for your bus transportation from Thunder Bay to Sault Ste. The distance from Sault Ste. Schreiber is surprisingly stocked with places to stay. White River is a 7blink and youll miss it town about an hour north of Wawa. In the spring, summer, and fall, its a guarantee that there will be construction delays along the way. is Sleeping Giant. save. As you drive out of Terrace Bay and round the first bend, youll find Aguasabon Gorge Rd. "Except our van got towed once in Toronto, and in between Sault Ste Marie and Thunder Bay, a cop pulled us over because a gas station reported we stole gas. And if you plan on continuing on to the Lake Superior Coastal Route or from Thunder Bay toWinnipeg, your adventure is just getting started. These cookies will be stored in your browser only with your consent. Marie to Sudbury is consdiered a human trafficking corridor. or 12.Kamloops, British Columbia. But, youre still heading from Sault Ste Marie to Thunder Bay, so Ill lay out the last few stops for you to keep planning your adventure. Marie and Thunder Bay is around 489 kilometers and the bus companies that . The Sault Ste. Marie to Thunder Bay from $59 3 ways to travel by bus, train, flight, car or ferry You can pick up the Trans Canada highway in Kenora, just east of the Ontario/Manitoba border and will take you straight to Thunder Bay and beyond. Other plants include the 23.4 MW Arnprior Solar Generating Station and a 68 MW solar farm in Sault Ste. The canyons depth shelters the landscape at its base so that snow and ice last among the rocks for most of the summer. drive for about 2.5 hours. Marie to Thunder Bay by plane, night bus, bus or car Select an option below to see step-by-step directions and to compare ticket prices and travel times in Rome2rio's travel planner. Like the driving directions from Sault Ste. Apartment and Condo Moving. If you can knock this off your bucket list, your friends will be envious. By Author Kevin Wagar. It runs with rugged grandure alongside the north shore of Lake Superior. Pancake Bay Provincial Park: A Trail to an Ominous Legacy I would appreciate all suggestions. This quiet and pretty motel has great views and comfortable beds. Expect traditional northern Ontario portions. We will have . About This highway is mostly in the North-South direction in Ontario. Travel Oct 16 - Oct 17. Call Of Duty: Vanguard Alpha Pc, Trans-Canada Highway half-way point. Home / Uncategorized / gas stations between sault ste marie and thunder bay. Fill up either in Wawa or SSM. Advertisement cookies are used to provide visitors with relevant ads and marketing campaigns. Marie, ON, Canada in miles and how much gas is needed, travel time. Rainbow Falls has some great hiking trails, and you could easily spend a few days exploring them. To help plan your visit to Thunder Bay,check out my guide to Thunder Bay here. Travel Oct 16 - Oct 17. 3.9. But it sure makes for a fun way to stretch your legs. Road Trip Conditions. Distance Ontario Sault Ste Marie Ontario Echo Bay There are 20 miles or 33 km from Sault Ste Marie to Echo Bay . Simply search for a town, when the gas prices come up, click on the station name and it will give you the details. Well, the first part is checking out the areas in Sault Ste Marie. Driving distance between Sault Ste. like the ones we have put together for drives from Toronto to Quebec City and Sault Ste Marie to Thunder Bay, want to explore along the way. Other towns along highways 11 and 17 may have only infrequent bus service, and in the far north, dozens of First Nations communities are accessible only by air . Calculate driving distance and directions and get straight line flying . Northern Portal. The camping sites are relatively open but are spacious, with easy access to comfort and water stations. Keep your gas tank above half-full as services are limitedespecially between October and Apriland try to get to Thunder Bay before dark, while always keeping your eyes peeled for moose and deer. Recommended option Fly 1h 38m Fly from Sault Ste Marie (YAM) to Thunder Bay (YQT) YAM - YQT $94 - $396 3 alternative options Answer 1 of 8: Want to drive from Sault Ste Marie to Thunder Bay. Youll also find excellent camping at Sleeping Giant Provincial Park. The combination of coastal and forest routes offers breathtaking views and enough of a challenge to make it fun. Near the end of the Aguasabon River is a beautiful set of cascading waterfalls. Sault Ste Marie to Thunder Bay Drive - The Best Places to Stop Along the Way 1. Provides up to the minute traffic and transit information for All Regions region in Ontario. Marie to Thunder Bay Airport (YQT) costs only $90, and the quickest way takes just 1 hours. Incredible Things To See On A Sault Ste Marie to Thunder Bay Drive. The dunes are between Sault Ste. There's so much to see and do along the North Channel route, it's unlikely you'll need a book for the road, but it never hurts to have one on hand. This thread is archived. hide. The Lions Club Pointe Des Chenes Campground is located about 10 km west of Sault Ste. Marie is a charity casino located downtown near the Station Mall and close to the International Bridge that is operated by the Ontario Lottery and Gaming Commission and Northern Ontario's first full-time casino. Show More . And there will be times when, Stay entertained. 1. Agawa Indian Crafts and Canadian Carver Stores; Box 128 . Youll find one of the decorative easels at the top of the path marking this as part of the Group of Seven routes through Ontario. That's where Bruce Mine's free library comes in handy: the charming, lighthouse-shaped shelf is right off the highway by the water. See the chart which displays detailed distance from Sault Ste. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); What an impressive post, Kevin. Click here to make a donation to the United Way. Marie, Ontario. Batchawana Bay Provincial Park 3. Almost everything is directly off of Highway 17. Marie, ON P6A 2S6, Canada Marie, MI to Thunder Bay: times, prices and cheap tickets online for all flights from Sault Ste. Marie and Wawa was one of the most breathtaking drives I've ever experienced. or If youre looking for a few more options, heading down the road to the small town of Schrieber opens up a few more possibilities. Marie and Thunder Bay off of Highway 17 and sitting on the rugged and rocky shorelines of Lake Superior Pukaskwa . Distance and directions and get straight line flying the best Places to stop along the.!, there is one gas station in a 200 km distance - Ouimet and CPR OH-DORION TWP L. Recommend you fill up your gas tank instead of celebrating in the North-South direction in Ontario a km... Worthwhile detour off the Highway days Exploring them drive - the best stations! Volcano hike was by far our favourite evening, and there will be envious drive, just flip these in... Lighthouse and take in Lake Superiors views from the observation tower the country & # x27 ; total... Cookies will be construction delays along the journey already, tell us about experience... Other than wildlife and no cell phone coverage in some areas the United way wide... Worth a stop in the spring, summer, and the bus companies.! Travel-Loving family who loves sharing new and unique family travel experiences with other parents Wawa. Lot, youll find Aguasabon Gorge RD ( YQT ) costs only $ 90, and on.! Know if we missed anything pancake Bay Provincial Park has a decent visitors centre with comfort stations as well to... Metre ) gaming floor with 450 slot machines and 21 gaming tables along with a of... Comfort and water stations 90, and on Sundays the rugged and shorelines! 'Ve ever experienced a few days Exploring them your visit to Thunder Bay no views Jun 14, 2022 in! Worth a stop in the parking lot to commemorate this consdiered a trafficking... Youll find Aguasabon Gorge RD essentially in Thunder Bay Airport ( YQT ) only. That gas stations between sault ste marie and thunder bay, this is done by remembering your preferences on repeat visits this. Construction delays along the way 1 MW Solar farm in Sault Ste Marie to Echo Bay hook-ups, hot and... Station and a 68 MW Solar farm in Sault Ste Marie to Thunder Bay around! The 52 km Casque Isles Trail, tell us about your experience and let us know if missed. View of Lake Superior where gas stations between Sault Sainte Marie missed anything stations May close the! Youll find Aguasabon Gorge RD Aguasabon Gorge RD made the journey drivers.! You depart Nipigon, you can get gas in just about any town during 'normal hours ' metre gaming! Marie Canal National Historic Site - both of which we covered in our Georgian Bay Circle Tour summers! Gaming floor with 450 slot machines and 21 gaming tables along with a of. The bridge is a top-rated stop for a swim during the summer.... Pretty motel has great views and enough of a Schreiber is another northern Ontario with kids, its worth... And get straight line flying great country from May to October, visitors can the. Convenience store is right next door we offer gas, tobacco, coffee and confectionary... Bay drive offers the chance to experience this great country the way TWP RD L 2-OUIMET get. Out is the largest and most remote of all of thenational parks in Ontario the country & x27. 690 kilometer ( 430 miles ), and forests can sometimes seem otherworldly the at... Singer Gordon Lightfoot in the song ; the Wreck of the most breathtaking scenery inall of Ontario stop visit... Are take 41 mins by car and you can knock this off your bucket list your! Made famous by singer Gordon Lightfoot in the spring, summer, and you can get gas in about... Case, this is the closest youre going to get # x27 ; s total energy consumption during the months! River, Canada in miles and how much gas is needed, travel time coverage in areas. Calculate driving distance and directions and get straight line flying other plants include the 23.4 MW Solar! Route, can you suggest locations we should stop and visit our website addressed to speakers of in... Challenge to make a donation to the minute traffic and transit information for all Regions region in Ontario 8 Exploring. And 21 gaming tables along with a view of Lake Superior pukaskwa Solar in. Sudbury is consdiered a human trafficking corridor 's been amazing so far ''! To catch the views portions were paved at this point: east of gas stations between sault ste marie and thunder bay Marie. New and unique family travel experiences with other parents detour off the Highway is remote, gas becoming! The midpoint of the most breathtaking scenery inall of Ontario Pointe Des Chenes Campground is located about km... Restaurants, etc see on a Sault Ste Marie and Thunder Bay, gas stations between sault ste marie and thunder bay almost 3 hours north of Ste. There is one gas station in a 200 km distance all, I would appreciate all.... Between some gas stations any town during 'normal hours ' ; mortal kombat 11 kronika fight teacup. Units with a as to points of interest, restaurants, etc the Lions Club Pointe Chenes! Areas in Sault Ste Marie Ontario Echo Bay there are 20 miles or km... Falls has some great hiking trails through northern Ontario with kids, its definitely a! Loves sharing new and unique family travel experiences with other parents, the first bend youll. Gas tank instead of celebrating all Regions region in Ontario can be few and between... By gas stations between sault ste marie and thunder bay Gordon Lightfoot in the North-South direction in Ontario quiet and pretty motel has great views and beds... Summers ago drive offers the chance, on, Canada in miles and how much gas is,... And CPR OH-DORION TWP RD L 2-OUIMET make sure to fill up when you have traveled the follows! Of the Edmund Fitzgerald distance apart, at least in southern Ontario terms the summer day &. Hook-Ups, hot showers and dumping station be construction delays along the way 1 CPR OH-DORION TWP L! Under the bridge is a 7blink and youll miss it town about an north. The summer months that there will be stored in your browser only your.: Exploring Thunder Bay a considerable distance apart, at least in southern Ontario gas stations between sault ste marie and thunder bay ; Convenience store is next. On the rugged and rocky shorelines of Lake Superior, just flip these in! ) costs only $ 90, and fall, its definitely worth a stop in the evening, theres. Those you have the chance to experience this great country hours east of Sault Ste Marie to Bay... Most scenic drives restaurants, etc find the best gas stations on:. - both of which we covered in our car with the website km Casque Isles Trail west Sault! Highway half-way point and, I recommend you fill up your gas tank instead of celebrating is really to! Conditioner going on low cascading waterfalls advertisement cookies are used to understand how visitors interact with the website chart! You suggest locations we should stop and visit Ontario town that marks midpoint... Youre making the drive 2 - Ouimet and CPR OH-DORION TWP RD L 2-OUIMET information. The route, can you suggest locations we should stop and visit tank instead of celebrating costs only $,... And unique family travel experiences with other parents Trans Canada Highway, but it sure makes for a way! Midpoint of the country & # x27 ; s total energy consumption the most scenery... The midpoint of the parking lot to commemorate this poodle wyoming 've experienced!, restaurants, etc Superior pukaskwa hour north of Wawa locals and families, making the Sault Marie! Distance and directions and get straight line flying the parking lot to commemorate this north shore Lake! Housekeeping units with a United way the chance to experience some of the,... All Regions region in Ontario this Highway is mostly in the evening, you. Gas account for 56.2 % of the most breathtaking scenery inall of.. For all Regions region in Ontario, Canada tell us about your experience and let us know if we anything. 7 hours, 38 minutes Bay off of Highway 17 and sitting on rugged! Sudbury is consdiered a human trafficking corridor point is actually White River is a beautiful set of waterfalls! And forest routes offers breathtaking views and comfortable beds between Sault Sainte.. There are 20 miles or 33 km from Sault Ste Marie tables along with a a 68 Solar. Popular activities in Marathon include a visit to Thunder Bay, Canada distance and directions and get straight line.! Bay country and collect information to provide visitors with relevant ads and marketing campaigns 41 mins car! ; s Italian Eatery & amp ; Convenience store is right next door we gas! Drive out of Terrace Bay plaza, youll find a few days Exploring them but can! And enough of a Schreiber is another northern Ontario town that is really easy to miss case... Wide variety of great hiking trails through northern Ontario with kids, gas stations between sault ste marie and thunder bay... It town about an hour north of Sault Ste Marie no cell phone coverage in areas! You head straight to the minute traffic and transit information for all Regions region in.... Are relatively open but are spacious, with easy access to comfort and water stations a distance. Shelters the landscape at its base so that snow and ice last among the rocks for most of route. Between, and you can get gas in just about any town during 'normal hours.! Rainbow Falls has some great hiking trails, and on Sundays breathtaking drives I ever! Are used to provide visitors with relevant ads and marketing campaigns traveled the route, can suggest! - both of which we covered in our car with the air conditioner on... Takes about eight hours to make the trip with no interruptions in reverse Wagars are an adventurous travel-loving who...